The Lord of the Rings - A General Discussion Thread

[Iolanthe]

Lindariel has also sung in G&S productions so there is a whole bunch of us with a fondness for it here. As we know that Tolkien and his wife were both G&S buffs and tried to get to every production (from a discussion with his daughter, Priscilla, at the Exeter College Tolkien Conference) we feel it's not too out of place to confess enjoying it here! We've also seen a letter on display at Moreton on Marsh (during the annual art exhibition) that shows that his mother must have introduced it to the boys. They were certainly familiar with The Gondoliers and 'Regular Royal Queen'. She probably played a fair bit of the repetoire on her piano!

[Lindariel]

Yes, shieldmaiden, I have trod the boards as a "delicious" Yum-Yum, a "feisty" Mabel (my favorite G&S role), and a "sparkling" Josephine. I even have scrapbook photos and newspaper reviews to prove it!

[Riv Res]

I was thinking about Aragorn (again ) last night. I am always thinking about Aragorn. Anyway, this is all hypothetical but ...

How does Aragorn make the transition, in demeanor, in thinking, and above all ... socially, from Strider to Elessar?

I know ... I know ... the throne of Gondor and Arnor is something that he had been preparing for in many different ways all his life. But, how does one go from being a self sufficient loner, wandering the wild to a King who is undoubtedly waited on hand and foot at every turn? How does someone who has relied primarily on his own council (or that of a Wizard's or Elf's - who are no longer available) now create the trustworthy friendships and alliances needed to rule? This is a skill set rarely used by Aragorn in all of his years of wanderings. He knows how to impress people and gain their allegiance through heroic deeds (ie: Ecthelion and Eomer), but what about the art of governance and true alliance building?

Then there are the social graces. How does a man who has stumbled around the wild places of Middle-earth for decades deal with the intrigues of the court at Minas Tirith? He has only loved one women and fended off the advances of one other. How does he handle the court flirtations and inevitable gossip? LOL ... I see him stumbling through these quite a bit and perhaps relying on Arwen's advice, but even she is only used to the elegant and lofty courtesies of the Elves. Does he take her dancing? Do they have royal balls ... state dinners? What does he do for fun? Does he know/learn how to have fun?

Tolkien does keep his royalty at arms length from the regular citizens and it is perhaps a more modern populist thinking that makes me ask these questions and wonder about these things.

What say you?

[Iolanthe]

I must admit I've never thought of Aragorn at a ball . Strangely, I don't have any trouble seeing him coping with all the etiquette and stately duties. Hopefully, Elrond prepared him well for the Kingly life! I think he's always accepted that might (if he's lucky) lie ahead, and after years of struggle, strife and coping with hunger, weariness and the wilderness I expect it's partly a relief to have a real home and settle down. He still has plenty of wars to get him out of the court and I seem him going off on hunting trips and inviting old friends over to keep himself sane and grounded. I imagine a lot of fun at court with the dour Ranger being shaken off altogether and replaced by a gracious King who inspires awe (no gossip near him) and respect, but who knows how to have fun and throw a good party!

[Merry]

As king, he gets to set the tone, right?

[Lindariel]

Riv, you have to keep in mind that he was raised by Elrond who spent centuries dealing with the intrigues of Gil-galad's court, maintaining alliances with Oropher and then Thranduil in Mirkwood, Galadriel and Celeborn in Lothlorien, Cirdan in Mithlond, various contingencies of Dwarves, plus dealing with the Kings and then Chieftains of Arnor. Elrond was not only a master healer, he was also a master politician. We are only given the briefest of glimpses into the social life of Rivendell, but Aragorn does make an appearance, clothed like an elven lord and looking entirely appropriate at Arwen's side. I have no doubt that he knows how to handle himself at a banquet, ball, festival, etc., and that he has all the requisite social graces. Just because he spent years in the wild unable to use them doesn't mean he can't trot them out when needed.

Also, Aragorn's sojourns in Rohan and Gondor were for the chief purpose of steeping himself from the ground up in the machinations of those courts and councils. I'm sure he attended his share of court functions as Captain Thorongil and knows full well how to gently extricate himself from the unwanted advances of the court ladies. He arrived at the Pelennor Fields well prepared for the kingship, militarily, socially, and politically.

[Riv Res]

Lindariel, you are far more confident in his transformative abilities than I ... I am afraid.

[Lindariel]

Oh, I fully expect that Aragorn would immediately set about knocking off a LOT of the crust and gilt and pomp and circumstance that accrued to the kingship/stewardship and probably became rather harshly institutionalized under Denethor. I'm quite sure he sent a mighty breeze blowing throughout the Citadel bringing plenty of fresh air, new ideas, and a tremendous relaxation of protocol. He would have a very clear idea of what ceremonies represent important things symbolically and what are simply creaky relics devised to raise the importance of petty tyrants. He's the Saviour of Gondor; if he wants to walk about the Royal Apartments in his bare feet, who's going to stop him?

Also, I think Viggo's wonderful performance as Aragorn tends to cloud our vision of The Professor's original incarnation. Viggo's Aragorn is MUCH more full of doubt than Book Aragorn, who has no doubt of his place in the world, and who seems to shed the mantle of Strider one piece at a time as the story progresses, so that by the time he greets Frodo and Sam at Cormallen and accepts the Winged Crown from Gandalf's hands on the Pelennor, he has fully emerged from his crysalis as the glorious and rightful King of Gondor.

Strider was a disguise. The Noble King was always within.

[shieldmaiden]

I agree he will do just fine at court and, don't forget, he had the wisdom to keep his "cousin" Faramir as his Steward. I'm sure Faramir will be able to help him weave his way through the maze of court intrigue and activities.

I have always found it interesting that the elvish blood has surfaced in these distant "cousins" in two very different ways. Aragorn has inherited the physical gifts of his elven ancestors and Faramir has inherited the mental gifts. They were clearly meant to be a team.

The question I have is whether or not Boromir knew of Faramir's "talent". If he did, it could be argued that he knew he was not destined to be Steward of Gondor, but rather it was Faramir's destiny. Clearly, if he suspected this, he never revealed it to their father.

[Merry]

All of Gondor seemed to know of Faramir's leadership abilities, except for his brother and father!

Tolkien makes a point to tell us that Minas Tirith seemed to care about the dead more than the living. Denethor's terrible death was the epitome of that. Certainly the whole point of the Return of the King is new life, the ascent of the race of Men blessed by the final grace of the departing elves. The reign of the true King is inaugurated with justice and mercy shown to all who approach the throne, politics as it should be, not court intrigue.

[Riv Res]

Also, I think Viggo's wonderful performance as Aragorn tends to cloud our vision of The Professor's original incarnation. Viggo's Aragorn is MUCH more full of doubt than Book Aragorn, who has no doubt of his place in the world, and who seems to shed the mantle of Strider one piece at a time as the story progresses, so that by the time he greets Frodo and Sam at Cormallen and accepts the Winged Crown from Gandalf's hands on the Pelennor, he has fully emerged from his crysalis as the glorious and rightful King of Gondor.

Strider was a disguise. The Noble King was always within.

I agree with you about Viggo's Aragorn vs Tolkien's. I do think, however, that even Tolkien's Aragorn will be found on certain days or nights when there is ceremonial mayhem at the court ... off in some quiet corner with his bittersweet memories of Strider.

[Iolanthe]

Oh, I don't doubt there would be days when he'd be longing to put on his old, dusty clothes, long boots and hood and go for an extended wander in the wilderness. Maybe he did!

[Lindariel]

There are a variety of rather fun Tolkien-based fiction stories on the theme of Aragorn and Faramir putting on their old Ranger gear and slipping away from their guards to spend a quiet few days in the wild only to run into varying degress of trouble. Try this one by Linda Hoyland at Stories of Arda:

http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlis ... p?SID=6537

[hope]

Well thank you fellow members for such a entertaining and thought provoking discussion about Aragorn. I cannot help but smile at the ways that LOTR etc can be delved into and considered, one wonders what Professor Tolkien would have thought too??

[Iolanthe]

he'd probably be sitting there going '...no, no, no, I never saw Aragorn doing that' .

Thanks for the link, Lindariel. I'm going to read that later on when I've got a bit more time. I love the idea of the two of them sneaking off and getting themselves in a fix!