The Hobbit - The Movie: Speculation and Discussion

[Merry]

I hadn't read the prophecy part anywhere before, as far as I remember--nice!

I guess I would say that the Silmarils had religious significance rather than power. So it's interesting that Melkor/Morgoth coveted them as well. What did they do for him, other than give him that ability to nyah nyah nyah to the rest of the Valar and the sons of Feanor? Did he simply appreciate them for their beauty?

[Riv Res]

What did they do for him, other than give him that ability to nyah nyah nyah to the rest of the Valar and the sons of Feanor?

LOL ... that did seem very important to him though.

[Merry]

Yes, true! C. S. Lewis wrote about the 'banality' of evil. Maybe this is an example of that.

[Riv Res]

Getting back to Throin, I found this on one of the student sites ... schmoop.com and thought it was an interesting take on Thorin, who I have never thought of as hilarious...

The contradictions in Thorin's character – that he is a stubborn, proud person who nonetheless comes through in the end – seems to work with Tolkien's more general idea of dwarves as a group:

• [Dwarves] are calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money; some are tricky and treacherous and pretty bad lots; some are not, but are decent enough people like Thorin and Company, if you don't expect too much. (12.6)

This description fits Thorin to a T: he thinks a lot about "the value of money," but he's also "decent enough," just as long as you don't expect him to be too generous or selfless. He is willing to help Bilbo when his burglar falls into trouble, as with the trolls, but he also wants to avoid the most dangerous parts of Bilbo's job – e.g., direct confrontation with Smaug. Thorin is also quick to anger, and he holds grudges forever (particularly against the Elvenking of the Wood-elves, who he totally refuses to talk to point-blank when Bard is trying to negotiate for some of Thorin's treasure). But, for all of that, he winds up coming through in the end when it really counts, which makes Thorin heroic enough for us.

One last trait of Thorin's that we want to mention: he is hilariously pompous and formal. He loves a good speech. Even when he's standing with twelve of his people and Bilbo on a doorstep to the Lonely Mountain with a dragon sitting and waiting for them all, he still bothers to stop and address Bilbo:

• Now is the time for our esteemed Mr. Baggins, who has proved himself a good companion on our long road, and a hobbit full of courage and resource far exceeding his size, and if I may say so possessed of good luck far exceeding the usual allowance – now is the time for him to perform the service for which he was included in our Company. (12.2)

The "service" Thorin means is Bilbo's agreement to help steal the dragon treasure (he is a burglar, after all). But Thorin can't just come out and say that he wants Bilbo to go into the secret passage first. Nope, he's got to dress it up in the most formal language possible. Thorin's stiffness of manner is in keeping with his character as a proud person with intense traditions. But it also provides one of the novel's few elements of humor about Thorin, who is otherwise not so much about the laughter.

[Merry]

Well, after all, this is a Tolkien character! Even orcs are somewhat articulate.

Schmoop?

[MICHKA]

Oui, il y a des moments qui frisent l'ironie dans la narration de Tolkien, et les personnages font sourire par leur grandiloquente pompe ou leur basse bêtise( je pense au discours de Thorin cité ci-dessus , et aux trolls très primaires et facilement leurrés) Il faut bien détendre l'atmosphère si dramatique de cette histoire où toutes sortes de mésaventures s'enchaînent et augmentent en difficultés.

[Lindariel]

This is why I had hoped PJ would cast Alan Rickman as Thorin. He would manage to make Thorin both heroic and pompous. Of course, that would also depend on the plot development and dialogue, and it seems PJ & Co. have elected to edit out that part of Thorin' s character.

[Merry]

Yes, I guess when they decided to make Thorin a sort of romantic lead, they had to do that. If he had been pompous, would we have cared about what happened to him? I guess we sort of do care about him in the book, despite his pomposity, but not to any great degree. I would say that movie Thorin has a great deal of dignity, but maybe that is just in comparison with the other dwarves.

[Philipa]

I would say that movie Thorin has a great deal of dignity, but maybe that is just in comparison with the other dwarves.

I think Balin is a more likable dwarf. I see Thorin's dignity, and don't really have any objection to how P.J. is portraying him. I don't see much difference in the other dwarfs though. Perhaps I'm just romanticizing the book but I remember more character build up in the written work for each dwarf. And you know how I feel about that dwarf / elven crush.

[Merry]

I agree: Balin is the only dwarf who seems to have some moral wisdom, too.

[Riv Res]

But I think Kili and Fili are growing up fast. (thank goodness )

[Riv Res]

The Desolation of Smaug is Here!

© New Line Productions

Just a heads up that today (March 25) I was able to purchase the HD version of The Desolation of Smaug via Amazon Instant Video ... complete with bonus features. The DVD/BluRay does not come out until April 8. Those of us who are addicted may choose to get it sooner. GOOD movie watching this evening ... even though it doesn't resemble the book.

[Merry]

I hope you have a lovely evening, RR!

Just to descend into the primal for a minute: quite a series of posters there for the movie! Looking at them in all their violent splendor, it occurs to me that Bard does nothing for me. Now I know I'm just an old Catholic spinster, but I still experience a bit of a thrill at the sight of a handsome young man! That picture of Thorin might have to go on my office wall! But Bard? Meh, as they say on the World Wide Interweb. I can't help but think that the moviemakers might have made a mistake in this, both in the casting and in the development of this character. In the book, Bard the Bowman is the romantic lead and should be heart-stoppingly gorgeous. Maybe I'll feel better about him in the movie after he does the heroic deed.

[Riv Res]

Now I know I'm just an old Catholic spinster, but I still experience a bit of a thrill at the sight of a handsome young man! That picture of Thorin might have to go on my office wall! But Bard? Meh, as they say on the World Wide Interweb. I can't help but think that the moviemakers might have made a mistake in this, both in the casting and in the development of this character. In the book, Bard the Bowman is the romantic lead and should be heart-stoppingly gorgeous. Maybe I'll feel better about him in the movie after he does the heroic deed.

...old Catholic spinster ... ... now that fits me to a 'T' as well. There is something lacking in PJ's Bard to be sure, but he has grown on me a bit. NEVER gonna reach those Aragorn heights though. Will be interesting to see how we feel about him after he slays Smaug and comes out the Laketown hero at the end ... IF ... that is the way PJ plays it.

[Riv Res]

I just can't abide the healing powers that PJ has given Tauriel in the second film. First of all, even though Tolkien himself calls Athelas a 'weed', PJ diminishes it even more by making it food for the pigs. ARGH! Then he has Tauriel chanting ancient Elvish healing spells while holding it to Kili's 'Morgul' wound. 'I will save him', she announces. PJ totally diminishes the great healing powers attributed to both Elrond and Aragorn ... the mighty rulers of their own races, endowed with these powers by being the descendents of their own powerful lineages. Apparently PJ thinks it is OK for some lowly Woodland Elf to be able to summon the power to heal from nowhere. No and no and no.