Tolkien in General

Philipa · Post by **Philipa** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:51 pm

I'm not sure how many of you have been reading The Great Years Calendar but I must say it has been top notch. Especially the entries for The Council of Elrond which have been posted for the past week or so.

For a beginner like myself I find so much I didn't think of while reading LoTR for the first time. And although I'm reading is ever soooo slowly

for the chapter by chapter entries I see where these calendar entries will add to my second reading of these books.

So a big thank you to all involved in creating this calendar and breathing new life into the books for the rest of us.

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:44 am

Happy Thanksgiving from Middle-earth Journeys!!

"Home is behind, the world ahead,
And there are many paths to tread
Through shadows to the edge of night,
Until the stars are all alight.
Then world behind and home ahead
We'll wander back to home and bed."

J.R.R.Tolkien: The Lord of the Rings

Philipa · Post by **Philipa** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:23 am

Excellent calendar entry. The last of the Council of Elrond is fantastic and geesh Riv I am not worthy.

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:02 am

I agree! It is SO interesting that, even at this stage of writing, Tolkien's plan was still unclear. It makes it all the more astounding that he worked it all out at such a level of detail. Think of the implications of that one idea, that one of the Men would be of the older race and the other not. The seed of real intrigue!

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:19 am

Merry and Philipa, I know that the twelve volumes of Christopher Tolkien's History of Middle-earth are monumentally laborious to wade through, but I don't think one can truly understand the incredible genius of J.R.R.Tolkien until they do.

Much of the story detail that I (in my ignorance) naturally attributed to Tolkien's writing his story in a lineal fashion...in other words, laying all the precedence for LOTR out first in the Sil...just did not happen that way.

How did he keep it all straight?

Iolanthe · Post by **Iolanthe** » Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:25 pm

Sometimes in really great art things have a way of somehow of straightening themselves when the artist is so deeply imbued in his creation as Tolkien was. His was a true mythology of the soul as well as the mind. But it really is an astonishing feat.

I must get the Christopher Tolkien volumes - it does seem daunting going through them but you've convinced me it's worth it!

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:33 pm

In another thread, bruce rerek wrote:

Most surely he used pity to convey what its meaning held to the story. I do not know when Aragorn could show pity to an Orc or to the Nazgul, for they were bent on destruction. A gollum character is far more close to what we see in everyday life. A twisted soul who is radicaly evil, who has murdered, and does deserve death. I know we are not to being politics into this forum, but the Professor does make us ponder the question of captial punishment. Some deserve life who are dead and some who are alive deserve to die, can you give it to them? Do not be so quick to hand out death and judgement, for not even the truly wise can see all ends.

In our time this is the question from New York City to Madrid to London, and to the streets of Jerusalem.

Bruce, we're not opposed to a respectful discussion of political issues here, so let's have at it! I agree that Tolkien's quote here has direct implications for capital punishment. I wonder if there was any opposition to the death penalty in England at the time? I don't think he writes about this in the letters. But he DOES write about the anti-German sentiment in England, I think after WWII. (Again, I apologize: I have loaned my copy of the Letters out, and it does not look like it will ever be returned!) Some in England thought that Germany should be wiped off the face of the earth in retribution. Tolkien recognized this for what it was, and his position was probably not very popular.

Your last point is well taken: wouldn't the world be much closer to Peace on Earth in this season if vengeance for past harm were replaced with Pity? Having been through two World Wars, I don't think we can call Tolkien a bleeding heart pacificist. But I think his views are reasonable and principled.

bruce rerek · Post by **bruce rerek** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:24 pm

Merry,
I most certainly agree. Rouge states that threaten the saftey and well being of others should not be tolerated and if necessary conquered and brought to justice as we have seen in Bosnia. But that is not what I meant to instill in our reading circle. It was that pity is the only resolution to aggrevious wrong. Hatred and brainwashing is an old saw, but if one has not brought the love of one's fellow man into one's heart, even to the most despised, the cycle of violence will only continue.
As an adult survivor of gross child abuse at the hands of sadistic teachers, it was pity and forgivenes that let the anger and rage subside and see them as terribly runied people who long ago forgot what love was. My foster son, who was also horribly abused and neglected by parents who were incapable of parenting, came to find pity, and more importantly to let himself off the hook by letting go of the rage. It was a long road from a trailer park to Oxford, but it was one that was inspired by those words from JRR Tolkien.

hope · Post by **hope** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:41 pm

Having not read Tolkien's letters I can only read along to this topic and feel very humble at your knowledge and intrepretation. Professor Tolkien illustrates well many human frailities but also illuminates strengths in character that are relevant in any society. His writings are as pertinent now as when he wrote them.

i enjoy reading about the theories or messages that can be deduced from his work. Please continue

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:55 am

I agree, hope, and I like the way you put it. It reminds me of Aragorn's remark to Eomer, when the latter asked him how one is to discern right from wrong in such a strange world. Aragorn said something like, Discern it as you always have done, because right and wrong do not change.

Not a popular ethical theory these days, but it is one that I hold true. Tolkien knew that vengeance was wrong, even after WWII. But today, there are some here in the US who hold that basic morality has to be changed after 9/11. Not in my book!

Philipa · Post by **Philipa** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:37 pm

Tomorrow's the last day for entries

If you haven't already entered the MeJ Yule Contest tomorrow 12/22 - 10:00 a.m. (MST) is the deadline for entries. Join the fun!

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:43 am

Oh, my, it has been dreary in this part of the Middle-west this week, and for some reason, January always gives me wonderlust! So while I've made some plane reservations in the real world, I thought we at Middle-earth Journeys might imagine some Middle-earth journeys.

Where in Middle-earth would you like to visit most and why?

marbretherese · Post by **marbretherese** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:50 am

Merry wrote:Where in Middle-earth would you like to visit most and why?

I'd like to visit Rivendell. It was my favourite place when I read the book and my favourite place when I saw the films . . . a stopping off point for those on a journey where they can rest and refresh themselves before continuing. Plus I have a thing about elves (as well as trees), and would love to meet some!

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:01 pm

I would head straight for the Hall of Fire in Imladris and probably never leave!

hope · Post by **hope** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:55 pm

Me I would head for Lothlorien.

I would love to see the mallorn trees and look in the mirrir of Galadriel.