Boromir or Faramir

[bruce rerek]

I would too choose Faramir. The qualities of noblility and measure as well as skill with a sword are what I look for in a warrior. I have often used his example to make important life choices. It still breaks my heart to read how gracefuly he took his father's scorn and to make his brother's death even more bitter, with, "If I should return please think better of me." That is strength and courage not to give into passion or anger.

[Iolanthe]

I voted and although I think the answers above answer two questions (marrage was brought up several times ) and not one, my vote went to Boromir. I see he is no more valient then Faramir when it came to the fight I just would feel 'safer' with him.

Way to go, Philipa! Two votes for Boromir, I'm starting to feel less sorry for him. He would make me feel safe too. And if he happened to look like a certain actor.... but we're not going there.

But Leggy has a good point:

To stay true to the book, although Boromir had Gondor's best interests at heart, and we are led to feel he is the 'warrior' of the two brothers, I would also go for Faramir.
He too is a good leader of men, but he also has the gentle quality and dependabiliy, (is that even a word??) that would calm you in a crisis.

Calm you in a crisis . That's worth a lot as it's very hard to fight orcs with an hysterical woman at your side (I'm no Eowyn ).

I would too choose Faramir. The qualities of noblility and measure as well as skill with a sword are what I look for in a warrior. I have often used his example to make important life choices.

Nice to have you back, Bruce . You couldn't look for a better example in life.

[Leggy]

The trouble is I really find it hard to see Boromir without seeing that 'certain' actor!!

Boromir would give the exciting element, but in the fight for Middle Earth, maybe there is enough excitement already!!!

To be fair, some would see Faramir's humility as a weaknesss, (not saying that I do), so their vote would defintely go to Boromir.

Boromir hated the way his father belittled Faramir, just because he was perceived as the stronger of the two, but in the writing, Faramir is hailed as a much beloved Captain and leader of men.

[Philipa]

To be fair, some would see Faramir's humility as a weaknesss, (not saying that I do), so their vote would defintely go to Boromir.

Boromir hated the way his father belittled Faramir, just because he was perceived as the stronger of the two, but in the writing, Faramir is hailed as a much beloved Captain and leader of men.

Oh no no no I don't see Faramir as the weaker of the two but as someone I see whoes passion for humanity is a strong point. Thus having said that Boromir has the same passion for humanity. He loves Gondor and everything it stands for. I almost see Boromir as a victim of his fathers ambitions as a pawn if you will. Very tragic....

[Iolanthe]

I see that too, Philipa. Denethor was such a strong willed man and Boromir was the most like him out of the two brothers and the oldest. He must have been bound to Denethor's pride and his visions for Gondor at an early age. I wonder how much he realised before leaving for Rivendell that Denethor's mind was going and his judgement clouded? He must have been filled with unease and fear at what might have been happening at home, both inside and outside Minas Tirith, and driven by need to get back ASAP with whatever means to save it that he could.

[Estel]

I wonder how much he realised before leaving for Rivendell that Denethor's mind was going and his judgement clouded? He must have been filled with unease and fear at what might have been happening at home, both inside and outside Minas Tirith, and driven by need to get back ASAP with whatever means to save it that he could.

Maybe...but I must say that I never perceived Boromir as very smart. Not interested in old books, just war, sports, drinks with his mates. He must have some sort of intelligence to become such a great captain, skilled in military strategy etc, but still, what do you call it in English , single-minded? Typical male, focused on one thing, not seeing the big picture. On the other hand, seeing "a certain actor" makes you actually think there might be something behind the valiant, but simple warrior mask. I actually think Iolanthe has a problem forgetting that certain actor. I'd say about Boromir that there is intelligence in his genes, he just hasn't trained certain parts of his brain. He has the capacity to think, but doesn't until it's too late.

[Merry]

Good point, Estel. Maybe having been raised in the shadow of Mordor and the threat of all-out war stunted his ability to be well-rounded.

There, I have said something sympathetic about Boromir!

[Iolanthe]

Well done Merry! That didn't hurt too much, did it .

Re-reading parts of 'The Ring Goes South' on the LOTR thread has reminded me of how caring of those Hobbits Boromir was. He was the first to spot how badly they were suffering in the snow and quickest to help. He was also the only one offering any sensible advice on how to deal with the conditions. A practical man first and foremost. If I was stuck in a snow drift I'd definitely choose Boromir .

[Estel]

Re-reading parts of 'The Ring Goes South' on the LOTR thread has reminded me of how caring of those Hobbits Boromir was. (...)
A practical man first and foremost. If I was stuck in a snow drift I'd definitely choose Boromir .

Considering the weather here I might have to choose Boromir too. But if one reads ROTK ( not sure, but think most of the info is in the appendix about the stewarts of Gondor) one would see that Faramir probably would be as good at everything practical as Boromir, he just has that extra most of us prefer in men, like using his brain.
Boromir can carry a couple of hobbits through a snowdrift, but who's a hobbit here? Faramir would probably be able to carry one Estel , but I'd rather walk myself and trust to Faramir's intelligence and resourcefulness to come up with good solutions to deal with the snow.
I'd choose Faramir any day, even in the midst of winter, he does know how to make women happy, presenting them with lovely clothes. Book Faramir, that is. I'd have to forget that actor , because I probably wouldn't mind being stuck in snow with movie Boromir.

[Marilyn]

I am going against the trend here, and voting for Boromir. When I first read LOTR I was very suspicious of him probably down to how Tolkien wrote about him. However I read the appendices a lot later and how much Boromir loved his brother and protected him, there was no rivalry between them. He always tried to defend Faramir against his father’s abject dismissal of him.

IMHO he was good man, albeit a warrior, he did care about his brother and the fellowship, he fought alongside them with passion and courage. Boromir, although he was proud and arrogant, when it came to it, yes, the ring did call to him and he was tempted to take it from Frodo, but I think he realised at the end that the ring must be destroyed or it will fall into the hands of the enemy, he therefore, in his last great stand gives time for Frodo and Sam to escape.

A proud and arrogant Boromir also revealed a shameful deed to Aragorn “I tried to take the ring from Frodo” and finally he recognises Aragorn’s destiny with “Go to Minas Tirith and save my people! I have failed."

With the temptation out of the way when Frodo and Sam started their journey, if he had not have been slain what would have been Boromir’s story?

Marilyn

[Iolanthe]

I have this image of Estel up Mount Caradhras in a snowstorm refusing to be carried and vanishing .

Marilyn it's nice to be reminded that there is more about Boromir (and good things too) in the appendices. I must read through them again. Boromir's on 3 votes! Go Boromir .

With the temptation out of the way when Frodo and Sam started their journey, if he had not have been slain what would have been Boromir’s story?

That's a really interesting question, Marilyn! What indeed ? Any takers?

[Merry]

In my imagination, if Boromir had survived the orc raid, there would have been two paths: the one toward Minas Tirith (would he have accepted the kingship of Aragorn then? or would he have died in battle?) or the one following Frodo, where his struggle with temptation would have continued. Either way, I don't think he was cured of his Ringlust when Frodo disappeared.

[Iolanthe]

I think he would have gone to Minas Tirith rather than pursue Frodo and the Ring at that point. He'd realised that 'a madness' had taken him so I think he would have headed straight for where he knew he was most needed. Either that or try to rescue Merry and Pippen with Aragorn and the others.

Or would he have tried to persude them that the two Hobbits were lost and that Aragorn should come with him to Gondor? His last words to Aragorn were that the Hobbits were alive but that he should 'go to Minas Tirith'. I imagine he would have been just as torn as the others at that crux of the story where everything seems to fall apart and even Aragorn can't see a clear path.

And would he have accepted Aragorn as King? Maybe, if he'd travelled the rest of the journey with him and been with him at Helm's Deep and the Paths of the Dead. But I wonder if he would have if he'd headed straight to Gondor alone to fight and then Aragorn had just turned up?

Lots of interesting questions!!!

[Philipa]

And would he have accepted Aragorn as King? Maybe, if he'd travelled the rest of the journey with him and been with him at Helm's Deep and the Paths of the Dead. But I wonder if he would have if he'd headed straight to Gondor alone to fight and then Aragorn had just turned up?

Lots of interesting questions!!!

I still stand by Boromir as being gallent and loyal. Remember in Lothlorien he talks of Minas Tirith and how proud he is of his fair city. I'm quite sure he would love to have seen the rightful King rule over Gondor.

[Iolanthe]

I think you're right. He was so steeped in the long traditions of the Stewards and their guardianship of Minas Tirith that he probably would have accpted it, more so than Denethor. I think he would have recognised that the wheel of history had turned with the return of the Heir of Gondor, and a new Golden Age must follow. All through the book he is a man of high ambition, but one who would always put his city first.