Tolkien Trivia

[Airwin]

Wow! Couldn't have asked for a more thorough (and correct!) answer! Your turn Bruce!

[bruce rerek]

In this place silver shine was reflected on its surface began it. In this place my father would fall, and he that took his life would casue me to fall to a skin shifter. Name this place, and explain why the taking of our retched lives was of importance to the enemies of darkness.
Level 1.75
Hint: it links all the histories of races to the destruction of the One Ring.
Good hunting!

[Lindariel]

OK, Bruce, since no one has attempted an answer yet, I'll give it a go.

The place is Moria -- where the silver shine of mithril encouraged the dwarves to "delve too deep," awakening Durin's Bane and turning the thriving Dwarf kingdom into an orc stronghold.

I believe the two wretched souls you refer to are Azog, the Orc-Chieftain of Moria (probably installed by Sauron in III 2480) who started the War of the Dwarves and Orcs by killing Thror, and his son Bolg, who succeeded Azog after he was killed by none other than a very young Dain Ironfoot (only 32 at the time) in the Battle of Azanulbizar.

Dain killed Azog at the very Gate of Moria and glimpsed within Durin's Bane, and warned Thrain against trying to reoccupy Moria after the costly victory over the orcs. "The world must change and some other power than ours (i.e., Gandalf) must come before Durin's Folk walk again in Moria."

Bolg was later killed in the Battle of Five Armies (dwarves, elves, men, a hobbit, a Wizard, Beorn, and the Eagles against the goblins and wargs of the North) by none other than Beorn the shape-shifter, who charged the goblin chieftain and killed him, after first rescueing the dying Thorin Oakenshield from battle. "Songs have said that three parts of the goblin warriors of the North perished on that day, and the mountains had peace for many a year."

Just imagine how much more difficult the passage of the Fellowship through Moria would have been and how much more perilous the northern portion of the War of the Ring would have been (specifically the Siege of Erebor, where an elderly Dain Ironfoot died defending the body of King Brand of Dale at the Gate of the Lonely Mountain) if the northern orc population hadn't been significantly wittled down by these two big battles.

Does that capture what you were looking for Bruce?

[bruce rerek]

Yes very much so. I wanted to post this history to make an unbroken relationship to the II and III Age events that led up to the War of the Ring. Where we are now at Moria while reading the Fellowship of The Ring. The chapter illustrates and touches on these events, to have them fully explained would give other readers a much more fuller appreciation.
Well done, as always, your go.

[Philipa]

excellent questions and answers going on. I especially love the connects being made.

[Lindariel]

Let's stay with our Moria theme, shall we? This is a Level 2 question.

What kind of creature was Durin's Bane? How did such creatures originate? What two characters, besides Gandalf, are credited with killing such creatures, although they perished in the attempt? Name a major character from The Silmarillion who was killed by these creatures.

[bruce rerek]

Good question Lindariel, since I know the answer I will let another member do so a little research. I would like to acknowlege your depth of scholarship.

[Philipa]

What kind of creature was Durin's Bane?

A Belrog

How did such creatures originate?

I believe they were of Morgoth's creatures while in Angband in the first age.

What two characters, besides Gandalf, are credited with killing such creatures, although they perished in the attempt?

Ecthelion fought Gothmog Lord of Balrogs in the Fall of Gondolin.

Glorfindel fought an unnamed Balrog on the flight from Gondolin.

Name a major character from The Silmarillion who was killed by these creatures.

Feanor

[Lindariel]

You're almost there Philipa! We're still looking for the origin of Balrogs. What were they before they became Balrogs? Everything else is correct.

[Philipa]

Must go digging in the Sil..ahah here it is page 26.

While describing Melkor's playthings....

Dreadful among these spirits were the Valaraukar, the scourges of fire that in Middle-earth were called the Balrogs, demons of terror.

[Lindariel]

Very close! To further complete your answer, here are excerpts from two entries in The Encyclopedia of Arda:

Balrogs: The Balrogs originated as Maiar, beings of the same kind as Sauron himself. They were primordial spirits of fire that had allied themselves with Melkor in ancient times, and became the most feared of his servants, especially during the Wars of Beleriand in the First Age. Details of their numbers are hard to state with certainty, but there seem to have been relatively few of them - probably no more than seven.

In appearance, the Balrogs were man-like, but fire streamed from them, and they were swathed in dark shadows. They carried whips of flame and induced great terror in friends and foes alike. In the War of Wrath, Morgoth was assailed by the forces of the Valar. Most of the Balrogs were destroyed in that War, but some few escaped over the Blue Mountains and hid in Middle-earth. Durin's Bane, the creature that drove the Dwarves from Moria, was one of these.

Valaraukar: A Quenya name formed from words vala, 'power' and rauko, 'demon'. The Valaraukar were the monstrous Maiar that Melkor took into his service, to become some of his most feared and dangerous servants. In Middle-earth, their name was changed from the Quenya form Valaraukar to the more familiar Sindarin form: Balrogs.

I think it is very important to realize that, when Gandalf is facing down the Balrog on the Bridge of Khazad-dum, he is facing another one of the Maiar -- a being with power equal to his own.

Your turn, Philipa!

Edited to add:

Philipa, I spotted your post over in the LOTR movie thread at Viggo-Works about what you had learned about Balrogs and just wanted to make an important correction.

Melkor/Morgoth did not create the Balrogs. They were Maiar spirits just like Gandalf (Olorin), Saruman (Curumo), and Sauron, and thus were originally created by Eru Iluvatar, The One. According to "Of the Enemies" in The Silmarillion:

For of the Maiar many were drawn to his [Melkor/Morgoth's] splendour in the days of his greatness, and remained in that allegiance down into his darkness; and others he corrupted afterwards to his service with lies and treacherous gifts. Dreadful among these spirits were the Valaraukar, the scourges of fire that in Middle-earth were called the Balrogs, demons of terror.

Tolkien makes an important distinction that the only being capable of true creation was Eru Iluvatar. The Ainur participated in the Great Music which conceptualized Arda, but only Eru could bring it into being. Even when Aule made the dwarves, he could not give them true life. They were only automatons until Eru gave them life.

Melkor/Morgoth could not create new beings, and neither could Sauron. They could only seduce, pervert, or torture beings that already had been given life by Eru.

[Philipa]

Thank you

Level 2

Where is Tarn Aeluin and what is it's significance?

[bruce rerek]

Several dates are in order to put this question into its historical context.
In the First Age the Dagor Bragollach took place in 455. Barahir who survived the battle took his men to Tarn Aeluin, a clear lake in the highlands of Dorthonion. He would remain an outlaw defing Morgoth's minions. Twelve years piror (433), to the battle of un-numbered tears, Barahir sired a son named Beren Erchamion. In 465 Beren sets out from Doriath on the Quest of the Silmaril and the hand of Luthien, daughter of the Elf high king Thingol and Melian, the Maia. It was under her protection that Tarn Aeluin was obscured from fell eyes. He would succeed and Beren and Luthien were wed and began the blood line to Elros and Elrond.
The connection to the Third Age is that the ring of Barahir would be on the hand of Aragorn son of Arathorn, Aragorn like his distant ancestors would also spend many years as an ranger keeping the forces of Sauron in check. He too would wed an Elven princess, Arwen daughter of Elrond of Rivendel.

[Philipa]

Very thorough Bruce and it is your turn.

[bruce rerek]

It was an outpost that was a sentinel to the borders of Beleraind, where if one still listens one can hear the howls and baying ehoing off the mountains. It holds significance for all ages and shares a name with the Third Age. What is this place and who has made history here?
Level 2