Tolkien in General

Iolanthe · Post by **Iolanthe** » Wed May 10, 2006 3:33 pm

That is a good question. I wonder it that is something anyone has ever looked at?

I love the book on so many different levels. I love the whole Eowyn / Faramir romance, of course. But the book isn't a romance except very briefly in a small subplot so that's one stereotype of what women 'like' that doesn't really explain the hold LOTR has over us. I love Aragorn and his story but when I first read it I was totally hooked on Frodo's journey to Mordor, his suffering and his friendship with Sam. I loved all the battles, I loved the monsters which are generally labelled as 'boy' things.

It's such an archetypal tale with such deep resonances in all humans that maybe it's one book that transcends the men / women thing? I'd be very interested to know what our men think the most important themes in the book are and which characters they like most.

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Fri May 12, 2006 3:15 am

I'd like to hear what men think about this, too. I agree with your assessment, Iolanthe, and the conclusion that maybe this transcends gender.

I remember reading somewhere that the marketing folks for the LOTR movies made a big mistake: they thought the movies would appeal mostly to teenage boys, and so made a bunch of orc t-shirts, etc. But the demographics showed that there were a sizable bunch of middle-aged women in the audiences--definitely not interested in orc t-shirts! (Bring on the elvish jewelry!)

The LOTR books are so rich in story, character, culture, language, action, description and human insight and truth that I truly believe there is enough there for everyone. That's not to say that, as RR suggests, men in general might like different parts than women. For example, would it be sexist to suggest that women might like "Houses of Healing" more than most men? Although I enjoy Helm's Deep (book more than movie--WAY too long in the movie!) almost as much.

Iolanthe · Post by **Iolanthe** » Fri May 12, 2006 2:57 pm

I enjoy the battles too. Aragorn challenging the orcs from the walls of Helm' s Deep, Theoden riding to Battle on the Pelennor Fields, Aragorn meeting Eomer on the Battlefield, Eowyn and Merry despatching the Witch King. Do men like the Houses of Healing? The whole Aragorn story arc with it's Sacred King themes? The growing healing of Eowyn as she comes to love Faramir?

I find it very hard to pinpoint what parts of the book resonate with me most. The truth is that all of it does.

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Fri May 12, 2006 3:24 pm

I too would love to hear from our male counterparts on what draws them to the books again and again.

For myself, yes I love the romantic aspects of the books. I must also state that I feel Tolkien's main objective was certainly not romance per say, and it is sparse in his stories but where he throws it in...it is wonderfully portrayed and written.

What continues to draw me back into his tales so often, however, is his portrayal of fellowship, nobility (not of the class but of the spirit), and the wondrous places he creates in Middle-earth. The friendships that are forged are worthy of envy, and then there is the endearing homey nature of the Shire and the (for the most part) whimsical Hobbits. Contrary to what I have read in the past from Merry

, I find Rivendell fascinating from the very first mention in The Hobbit. Lothlorien somehow seems a mystical, yet colder place to me.

So...what keeps men reading this story over and over? Are they drawn back to it time and again by the same things as me...or does this Tolkien appeal to them in a different way?

I know we do not discuss PJ's movies here, but one key point that enters into this particualr discussion is that I remembered that the critics and media were somewhat astounded at the overwhelming popularity of the movies with women. Since they were so battle oriented, I guess they figured that they would only be a guy thing, and they were quick to jump to the conclusion that the portrayals of Aragorn and Legolas by two certain actors was the ONLY factor that drew women to the movies. D'oh!! Shows ya how much they know.

Thoughts?

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:24 pm

Ha! Right indeed!

RR, you have a memory like a steel trap! But Rivendell has grown on me, so much so that I have a framed picture of Tolkien's illustration of it in my home: the Last Homely House.

I like your pointing out of the spirit of nobility in the books. That's it exactly.

Iolanthe, I love Aragorn on the wall of Helm's Deep, too! And I, too, wonder if men love the Shieldmaiden as much as women do. Begone, foul dwimmerlaik!

Airwin · Post by **Airwin** » Thu May 18, 2006 5:10 pm

I guess the "downside" of having seen the movies before reading the books, is that I visualize everything I read with what I've seen in the movies (and if it's not in the movies I improvise

). I haven't had the pleasure of making my own impressions of each character and place as far as the Trilogy is concerned. I have somewhat for The Hobbit and Sil, etc.

Anyways, the main attraction for me is the historical richness (history was one of my favorite subjects in school), the mystical aspect, and the spiritual aspect, particularly of the Elves. The Sil is a big contributor to the image I have of Middle-Earth.

As for the Trilogy, I love the adventure and the coming together of people of different cultures, developing life-long friendships through mutual love and trust. And the finding of courage under difficult circumstances. And the respect for all living and growing things (except the bad guys of course.

) And of course the romance....sigh... I could go on and on, but that about covers it.

Looking forward to hearing from the men.

Iolanthe · Post by **Iolanthe** » Fri May 19, 2006 3:47 pm

Where are the men

? We need some very imprtant input here!

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Tue May 23, 2006 4:27 am

Wonderful Great Years Calendar entry today! I imagine the river route, as well, although one wonders how they transported the horses. I can also imagine people lining the riverbanks to see the Fair Folk and hear their singing (like something out of 'Showboat'!)

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Tue May 23, 2006 5:52 pm

Merry wrote:I can also imagine people lining the riverbanks to see the Fair Folk and hear their singing (like something out of 'Showboat'!)

No tambourines please.

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Wed May 24, 2006 2:59 am

I'm with you on that!

Iolanthe · Post by **Iolanthe** » Wed May 24, 2006 2:36 pm

Showboat...

Well, it's a lovely image you've conjoured up (if I can forget the tambourines). It would make a wonderful painting with all those great Elves travelling to the new King.

elizabeth · Post by **elizabeth** » Thu May 25, 2006 2:31 pm

Actually, I think of it as something more medieval. Like people coming to see the king as he traveled the kingdom. Only of course cooler because it is Elves. So I imagine instruments more on the line of lyres and lutes than tamborines.

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Thu May 25, 2006 4:59 pm

Yes, that's what is in my imagination, too. We can extrapolate from what we know about the elves: they put bells on the gear of their horses, and I think somebody mentions, when the the Dunadain and the sons of Elrond catch up with Aragorn in Rohan, that the half-elven gear is 'less somber' than the others. So we've got to imagine bells and ribbons and flowers and party clothes and other arty stuff on the boats--well worth viewing as they float by!

Iolanthe · Post by **Iolanthe** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:28 am

I'm about two-thirds of the way through reading Farmer Giles of Ham. What fun! I love it. I'm wondering why I didn't buy Tales from the Perillous Realm years ago but somehow I always overlooked it before I learnt more about Tolkien. I shall have to dig out my Paul Kocher 'Master of Middle-earth' again as I know there is a chapter about it.

It's a reminder about just how laugh out loud funny Tolkien can be and how astute he is about human nature. And then there are all the literary in-jokes sprinkled through it.

I wish he had written many, many more of these stories, full of jokes for children and adults alike. It works on every level.

Philipa · Post by **Philipa** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:59 pm

Iolanthe thanks for reminding me of Farmer Giles of Ham. I have picked the book up off the shelf in the bookstore several times but not bought a copy as of yet. If you're laughing then maybe I'll buy a copy next time.