Tolkien Trivia

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Tue May 30, 2006 3:05 pm

Bruce, in "The Window on the West" chapter of TTT, Faramir relayed this observation to Frodo and Sam during their stay with the Rangers of Ithilien in hidden stronghold behind the waterfalls of Henneth Annun. Shortly after Faramir's dissertation on the ways of Gondor and the relationship between Gondor and Rohan, Sam asks him about his knowledge of elves and then waxes rhapsodic on the subject of Lady Galadriel. Before he realizes it, Sam blurts out that Boromir took his peril with him into Lothlorien because he desired the Enemy's Ring. And much to their and our joy and relief, Faramir gets his chance to "display his quality."

Wonderful scene between Faramir and the hobbits! I really wish PJ had permitted Faramir to retain this extraordinary restraint regarding the Ring, but I do understand their desire to not "strip the Ring of its power." I also believe (though they never said so) that they wanted to set Aragorn up as the only man in the films to reject the use of the Ring outright. To do so, Faramir had to be at least a bit tempted to take the Ring to Gondor.

bruce rerek · Post by **bruce rerek** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:06 pm

Yes you most correct Lindariel. Despite the alterations by PJ I still think Faramir's nobility does come across well. Much more quotes to correct and it is your choice now. All the best!

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:30 pm

Thanks Bruce! I agree that Faramir's nobility does come through in PJ's movies, but I still wish his original character had been left more intact. Like Sam said, "You have an air too, sir, that reminds me of, of -- well, Gandalf, or wizards."

I'm going to depart from our current theme (can't think of another "out of place" quote right now) for the following question, which is a level 1:

What were the names of the three Great Eagles who assisted Gandalf in rescuing Frodo and Sam?

BONUS SPECULATION: Just for the heck of it -- Why do you think Gandalf asked three of the Great Eagles to assist him with this rescue when there were only two members of the Fellowship in danger?

bruce rerek · Post by **bruce rerek** » Wed May 31, 2006 5:10 pm

I will leave this to another member since I know the answer. As for the speculation, it is my belife that since speed and keen of eye were necessary to rescue Sam and Frodo the skill of each were needed. Personaly, I feel it was an honor guard had things had turned ill for either, that their reamains would not be left to perish in the ashes of Mount Doom.

Marilyn · Post by **Marilyn** » Wed May 31, 2006 5:19 pm

Sorry I've not been in touch for a while but work commitments keep me away.

I did know two of the eagles Gwaihir and Landroval, but had to look up the third

which was Meneldor.

As to why three eagles were involved in the rescue of Frodo and Sam, maybe one of them was a scout or back up just in case not all of the fell beasts had perished in the eruption of Mount Doom. As Meneldor was the youngest and swiftest he may have gone ahead to survey the situation and came back to report.

Marilyn

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:12 pm

You are correct, Marilyn!

Over the years, my speculations about Gandalf's recruitment of three Great Eagles for this rescue mission have changed. At first, I assumed that, since Gwaihir would already be burdened with the weight of Gandalf, the other two eagles would actually serve as the rescuers for the Ringbearer and his faithful companion.

However, after seeing PJ's cinematic interpretation, in which Gwaihir, bearing Gandalf, rescues Frodo, and one of the other eagles rescues Sam, leaving the third eagle with no burden at all, I began to wonder if perhaps there might be another, more beautiful explanation. What if Gandalf recruited three eagles for this mission because he hoped beyond all hopes that Gollum might need rescuing as well?

Recall that in all things related to the wretched Gollum, Gandalf had always recommended pity and mercy. Indeed, in his original incarnation as the "Wisest of the Maiar" Olorin, Gandalf learned pity and patience from the Vala Nienna -- she who "mourns for every wound that Arda has suffered . . . . But she does not weep for herself; and those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope." Could Gandalf, in a last gesture of pity and hope for the miserable Gollum, have asked the third eagle to join this rescue party hoping that Gollum somehow might have been spared?

I guess we'll never know, but it is nice to speculate . . .

Your turn, Marilyn!

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:12 pm

I think you're right, Lindariel, that Gandalf might have had hopes for Gollum and that he thought all along that Gollum might have something to do with the end of the Ring. But I imagine that his choice of three eagles didn't have much to do with the weight of the passengers, which was negligiable in relation to the size of the eagles. Didn't Gandalf have a discussion about his weight with the eagle that rescued him after his 'transformation'? Something like, you won't find that I weigh very much, and the eagle said, I'd bear you, even if you were made of stone. I imagine that one eagle could easily have transported all four passengers--Gollum didn't seem to have had any extra pounds!

Did Gandalf ask for three? Or did the eagles make that choice?

Marilyn · Post by **Marilyn** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:02 pm

I like your scenario Lindariel, giving hope to the fact that Gollum may have been saved in the end. Such a wretched creature who invokes such sympathy.

My question is probably a level 1.5

I was established in 2901 during the Third Age and was changed environmentally to conceal me from view

1) What was my name and how was I changed?
2) Someone captured Gollum here, what was his name?

Marilyn

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:01 pm

Marilyn, since I'm going on vacation beginning tomorrow, I will leave the answer to your question to others. It's a good one!

Merry, when Gandalf consults Gwaihir about the rescue he states, "Then come, and let your brother go with us, and some other of your folk who is most swift! For we have need fo speed greater than any wind, outmatching the wings of the Nazgul." So he does specifically ask for three eagles to participate in the rescue.

Also, recall that when the eagles rescued Gandalf, Bilbo, and Thorin's party of dwarves "out of the frying pan" in the Hobbit, they each bore only one passenger, save for the eagle who rescued Dori. That eagle got an unexpected extra passenger when Bilbo desperately grabbed Dori's legs and was swept away just before the tree they were in burst fully into flames. Later, when the eagles deliver Gandalf, Bilbo, and the dwarves from their eeries to The Carrock in Beorn's land, it takes fifteen eagles to do the job, so that they each only bear one passenger. So, I really think they are "single passenger" aircraft.

In addition, when Gandalf is contemplating this rescue, he must know that Frodo and Sam (and Gollum?), if alive, must be very weak and exhausted after their ordeal, if not gravely wounded from the eruption of Mount Doom. He would also realize that the eagles will have to lift and carry their passengers in their talons, hence the need for three eagles. PJ did a wonderful job of depicting this in ROTK, with the eagles touching down on one foot and lifting the unconscious Frodo and Sam with the other. Had Gollum survivied, I imagine the third eagle would have lifted him in the same way.

Have a great week while I'm on vacation! I look forward to reading the new questions and answers that will transpire during my absence!

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:15 pm

Good points, as always, Lindariel. Have a great vacation!

bruce rerek · Post by **bruce rerek** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 4:37 pm

Marilyn, the best answer I can give is that of Mirkwood. Aragorn did capture Gollum, as Gandalf informed Frodo, in the Shadow of the Past. On Sauron's return Mirkwood was covered in a shadow and a ghost was reported by the Woodsmen that drank blood;"It climbed trees to find nests; it crept into holes to find the young; it slipped through windows to find cradles."

Marilyn · Post by **Marilyn** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 6:44 pm

Sorry Bruce, I'm looking for somewhere and someone else further into the story

Marilyn

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:15 pm

Are we talking about Henneth Annun?

Marilyn · Post by **Marilyn** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 7:00 am

Yes I am, Merry, and the answer to the rest of the question is .......?

Marilyn

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:29 pm

Okay, I'm doing this from memory, faulty as it is--but I think they altered the course of the river to create the falls to conceal the cave. And was it Mablung who captured Gollum near the pool formed by the falls?