Tolkien Trivia

bruce rerek · Post by **bruce rerek** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:59 pm

"Know that he suffered greatly at the hand of his master, who would have thought that one so small could endure so much pain, and he did Gandalf, and he did."
That would count as crueler than any Orc. The mouth of Sauron, the Black Lieutenant.

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:46 pm

Yes. Terrible line.

Your turn, Bruce.

bruce rerek · Post by **bruce rerek** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:54 pm

Let's turn to something a bit more uplifting. Elessar. There was such a person and a stone. For a well deserved 2.5 gold star, trace its origins and its histories. It connects all three ages, from whom did it start, did it pass to, who was the steward of the jewel, and to whom did it return?

bruce rerek · Post by **bruce rerek** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:31 pm

First hint, jewel masters are usually whom?

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:06 pm

I call upon our leader, Riv Res, to answer these questions! She has special expertise in this area.

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:11 am

Let me give this a try then...

The original Elessar was green gem made in Gondolin during the First Age. Stories of its creation differ in detail: some name Enerdhil as its maker, but Celebrimbor son of Curufin was more likely to have been the jewelsmith who created it. The Elessar had the light of the Sun trapped within it, and those who looked through it were said to see the withered or aged as whole and young again. It was even claimed to have some power of healing.

This Elessar was saved from the Fall of Gondolin by Idril, who gave it to her son Eärendil, and with Eärendil it was carried across the Sea to the Blessed Realm.

In the Third Age, another Elessar was seen - the Elfstone given by Galadriel to her daughter Celebrian who in turn gave it to her daughter Arwen who gave it back to Galadriel so that she might give it at last to Aragorn - and some said that this was Eärendil's jewel, brought back to Middle-earth by Mithrandir. In truth, though, Aragorn's Elessar seems to have been a new stone, also made by Celebrimbor, with less power than the original jewel.

bruce rerek · Post by **bruce rerek** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:50 pm

Well done indeed! There are so many links both mythical and artifact that Tolkien populates this wonderful opus to all three ages.
If I am not mistaken the Elessar was the stone that kept Galadriel's realm whole and without age. Let us not forget one of the most potent and over arching themes in this opus is that of artifice. The Elves had tremendous and fearful ability to craft what they wished to master. Ah, but that is the question is it not? Are there powers that cannot and ought not be harnessed? In defense to the master ring, the other three rings of power kept the One Ring in check. Once the One Ring was destroyed the fate of all others were linked to its demise. Perhaps the Elessar that Aragorn wore (let us not forget as a child his loving name was Estel{hope}) was but now a relic of its former self. The age of artifice was over, before Aragorn would accept the crown he tasked himself to heal by ordinary methods.
"I am Elessar, the Elfstone, and Evinyatar, the Renewer."
Yet, he called for an ordinary herb, a weed in the eyes of Gondarian caregivers, athelas. The multiple reflexive images is quite striking. The laying on of loving hands, the calling of one's name - all very human, but powerful forces that summon strength from one soul to another.
Estel innded!

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:09 pm

I learned something new today! I didn't know the powers of the original Elessar. That makes the scene (one of your favorites, RR) of Aragorn's shining the light of the Elessar from the setting sun onto the hobbits as farewell into a kind of blessing, really, even if it is not the original--although I want it to be the original!

Bruce, I like your contrast between the different kinds of 'magic'. In addition to the humbler, more earthy means of Aragorn's healing, he also is drawn into the suffering of the other: the accounts of his healing all include that he became fatigued, his face became grey, etc. To enter into and share the suffering of another as a means of healing has almost religious overtones.

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:18 pm

Yes Bruce, could it be that the original Elessar morphed into the new stone, diminished when first given to Aragorn, but brought to it's true brilliance once again with the destruction of Sauron and the Ring...and of course...with the return of the King?

Then Aragorn took the green stone and held it up, and there came a green fire from his hand.

And yes Merry, my favorite image from Many Partings.

bruce rerek · Post by **bruce rerek** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:46 pm

Merry,
I would have to say that it doesn't almost have religious overtones-it has religious overtones. That when faced with such radical evil it is not such a stretch to invoke what is the good, if not the divine. I have been reading Iris Murdoch's, Metaphysics As A Guide To Morality. Here is a quote from the text:
"Outsiders often help bereaved people by reminding them that they have urgent duties and must not remain in stilled contemplation of what is uniquely terrible. There are immediate tasks, arrangements to be made, others to be comforted, ordinary life at last to be carried on...No doubt a usual response to absolute pain is, after the first shock, instant flight, despair, blank self-enclosed misery. When we recover from bereavement we know we have been in another country upon which we resolutely turn our backs. We do not look. In these (usual) cases in the pure morality or religious vision (justice, wisdom, unselfing, acceptance of death and chance) can only reside in the silent eye of some rarely gifted beholder, or in the working or speaking eye of a great artist. In the later case we have tragedy, the moral vision residing in the work, not in the man."
To convey this very complex connection to the religious morality is key to the Houses of Healing. Thus the Elessar's light is the unbroken gaze from lover to the beloved.
Riv,
I would agree that the gem has morphed into what is so human - co passion. Before it was merely functionary, but taken as human it has to embrace life, which without love is empty. Yet, to do so comes with a terrible knowledge of the very real pain of all conscious souls; ourselves. What else can we do other than to offer ourselves to another?

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:33 am

Timely reading, Bruce--perfect quote for the topic at hand.

hope · Post by **hope** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:47 pm

Without sounding coy........ I have enjoyed the depth of thought and consideration given to Tolkien's work and have felt quite humbled by the insight that I have gained (although I have not posted in this discussion i have followed its themes with great interest)

So thank you Bruce, Riv and Merry

May this continue

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:18 am

You're quite welcome, hope! It's a joy for me, too, to come here and learn. Join in anytime!

bruce rerek · Post by **bruce rerek** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:37 pm

Cheers, but isn't Riv's go now?

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:21 pm

Tall ships and tall kings
Three times three,
What brought they from the foundered land
Over the flowing sea?
Seven stars and seven stones
And one white tree.

Where where each of the seven stones was placed when they were brought to Middle-earth? Which was the Master-stone of the seven?

One of Bruces gold stars to anyone who can tell us about the eigth stone.