Discussing The Hobbit

[lyanness]

I rather think we sell our children short when we determine in advance as to what they can or cannot understand.

I completely agree with you, Bruce. When I was a child, all I wanted was literature that would stimulate and challenge me, and all I was given was stories typically given to children of my age and below as my parents thought that I wouldn't be able to understand 'adult' literature. Naturally, they freaked when they noticed my father's books missing from his collection and 'appearing' in my room when I was in primary school (I suppose due to the fact that the books contained their fair share of violence - my father loves war stories) I got into major trouble, until my parents discovered that I was actually reading the books, not just stealing them. The moral of the story, never underestimate your children, they could be smarter than you think.

[lyanness]

Riv Res I have often thought about how he would have felt w/ all the hoopla the LoTR movies garnered and the attention it has brought his writings. Would he have enjoyed it, I think not.

Do we factually know what Tolkien would have thought about the LOTR movies? We can all make assumptions based on our opinions of what he would have liked or not, but we do not know for a fact what his opinion regarding the latter is as he did not actually see the movies and make a comment regarding them.
I'm actually grateful to Peter Jackson and the crew for introducing a great amount of South Africans, like myself, to the books.
Peter Jackson makes it very clear that the movie is just his interpretation of the books.
What the movies did, is give myself and all the other people that I have spoken to a greater appreciation of Tolkien's work. It is just my opinion, but I think that that he would have enjoyed - appreciation for the work that took him so long to carve into something spectacular.

[lyanness]

I would really like to apologize to the administrators of this page. I tend to go off the topic quite a lot. It happens when I see something I'd like to comment about, and sometimes my fingers and will work faster than my brain (ie: reason and logic) my comments above have little to do with The Hobbit, and I know that I have given someone grey hairs. I promise that I will try my utmost to stick to the topic.

[lyanness]

So, I've been thinking: why do you think the Professor's imagination gave hobbits hairy feet?

Thinking in a physiological frame of mind, I think that the hair on their feet would be simply functional, same as the hair on one's arms and legs - to insulate them against cold, protecting the homeostasis of the body. The feet of the Hobbits are completely exposed to the elements, so I would guess that for physiological protection, the Professor decided to put hair on the feet and thicken the soles. In South Africa, a certain group of the population do not wear shoes, not due to poverty, I assure you, but due to familial influences. Their feet look like the Hobbits! Not as hairy on the top, but hairy and thick, dirty soles, hence my interpretation.

[Iolanthe]

Hi Lyanness .

I like your hairy feet theory . And I think the whole barefoot Hobbit thing brings the Hobbits closer to the earth and to nature.

Riv Res I have often thought about how he would have felt w/ all the hoopla the LoTR movies garnered and the attention it has brought his writings. Would he have enjoyed it, I think not.

Do we factually know what Tolkien would have thought about the LOTR movies? We can all make assumptions based on our opinions of what he would have liked or not, but we do not know for a fact what his opinion regarding the latter is as he did not actually see the movies and make a comment regarding them.

Good points but I think it's the hoopla that would have gone hand in hand with the successful films that are being referred to. He hated fuss and recognition and this would have brought a whole ton of it down on his head. From what we know of Tolkien he would certainly have hated that! But he did always want to see the books filmed so maybe he would have enjoyed a lot of what he saw in the films while grieving about some of the more inexplicable changes. But we're not here to talk about the films though I presonally love them .

I would really like to apologize to the administrators of this page. I tend to go off the topic quite a lot. It happens when I see something I'd like to comment about, and sometimes my fingers and will work faster than my brain (ie: reason and logic) my comments above have little to do with The Hobbit, and I know that I have given someone grey hairs. I promise that I will try my utmost to stick to the topic.

Don't you worry - I'm just glad you want to chat on an (up 'til now) very quiet thread . We're talking about colours in LotR on the JRR Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator thread and we've wandered well away from his art there!

[lyanness]

I am completely green with envy at you all as you are talking about Tolkien books that I am not even aware exists.
The only books that I have come across where I reside in South Africa are:
- The LOTR
- The LOTR companions guide
- The Hobbit
- The Silmarillion
- The unfinished tales
- The children of the Hurin
all of which were available AFTER PJs movies were released!
I've purchased all, of course, and am still reading through them.
Could anyone please tell me where I could purchase more of Tolkien's books? It would have to be over the internet, unfortunately. I wish that I resided in a place where Tolkien's work was readily available.

[Iolanthe]

Have you seen our Tolkien Library where there are reviews of a lot of books by and about Tolkien? There is a link on the menu on the top right of the page.

I'd try Amazon.com (is there a South African branch?) for your books or Kalahari.net. Don't know what they are like but they are described as the South African Amazon and Tolkien brings up 300 hits...

[Merry]

Nice to see you here, Lyanness!

Sadly, there are not many more Tolkien books to be had anywhere: Roverandum, Farmer Giles of Ham, and Smith of Wootton Major are the only ones I can think of that you don't have. But there are lots and lots of books about Tolkien's books that still keep our feet in Middle-earth. If I were in your position, I'd read his letters next--incredibly insightful!

[lyanness]

Thanks for your replies. I've received some Tolkien items (movies) through amazon.com (by the way, I'm quite impressed with them, they're much more efficient than South African services). Will DEFINATELY check them out for more Tolkien material (literature this time) as well as the other references given.

To be honest, I'm starving for Tolkien's work, cant get enough of it.
Thankfully, I've found this site where I can converse with people who love and admire Tolkien's work like I do, not yawn and act in an openly disinterested manner like my family and partner do. I really feel sorry for them, missing out on this wonderful experience.

[Iolanthe]

it's great you've found us, Lyanness. We can't get enough of Tolkien here and I confess that I am now completely and utterly obsessed .

[lyanness]

I'm reading the Hobbit for the 2nd time, and absorbing every word like a sponge - I read it quite speedily the first time and cant remember bits of it.

I just wanted to ask something about the troll scene.

Gandalf is a Mitherandian with a distinctive human-like voice. Trolls are Trolls with a distinctive Troll voice and, I assume, distinctive language as well.

How could they mistake Gandalf's voice for one of their fellow Trolls? It doesnt make sense to me. I know the sound of my friend's voice in a croud, even though I only met her at the start of the year. Judging from their relationship - and the state of the Troll cave and the amount of humans and elves eaten - these trolls have known each other for quite a long time. The literature doesnt describe the quality of the voice, it just mentions that a voice spoke. The literature doesnt say that Gandalf had any "special powers", so I assume that he couldn't mould his voice to sound like a Trolls, which would be extremely deep judging from the size of the animal.

Any suggestions?
Or am I taking the literature too literally?

[Iolanthe]

I think Gandalf had a talent for mimickry and had no trouble imitating all their voices and if they had a troll language he obviously knew it! Gandalf has lived so long in Middle-earth he seems to know almost everything .

That and the fact that the Trolls are clearly exceedingly stupid .

[lyanness]

You're so right!!! I completely overestimated the intelligence of the trolls!

I also forgot that Mitherandians can live for ages, literally, so, naturally, Gandalf would have had learned a trick or two in his loooooong lifetime .

Thanks for the reply.

[Lindariel]

Lyanness, where did you find the term "Mitherandian"? I've never heard of it, and you've roused my curiosity.

Gandalf is called Mithrandir by the Elves, but that is one of his many names, not his species or nationality. His "species," if you will, is Maiar -- one of the lesser Ainur. His incarnation in Middle-earth is as one of the five Istari, the Wizards.

[lyanness]

Hi Lindariel

My main problem is that I'm an infant Tolkienite, and know the LoTR movies (sorry for swearing) backwards, sidewards, horizontally and every other direction as that is my first contact with the story.

In the movies, Gandalf is a Mitherandian, called that by some of the races on the film. Mitherandians are a different race of beings that live for many ages and once they die, they come back into the same body (in the movie). I now need to de-program myself from the movies , forgetting everything that I have learnt there, and re-program myself with the VASTness that is the correct literature.

That's why this site is so humbling for me. Whenever I consider myself knowledgeable in something, someone more knowledgeable can help me on the right path . Thanks Lindariel.