This Season in Middle-earth

Archived threads.
Merry
Varda
Posts: 3263
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:01 am
Location: Middle-west

This Season in Middle-earth

Post by Merry »

This Season in Middle-Earth

Image

Artwork by Ted Nasmith
"Aragorn sat with his head bowed to his knees;
only Elrond knew fully what this hour meant to him
."
Professor Shippey reminds us that December 25 is an important day in Middle-earth: it is the day that Aragorn and the rest of the Fellowship finally leave Rivendell on the quest to destroy the Ring and save Middle-earth. Shippey does not think that Tolkien's choice of a date is accidental. As a Christian, Tolkien would have been observing Advent during these weeks, the Season of Waiting, the Season of Patience. So what role do these virtues play in The Lord of the Rings?

This seasonal thread is the place to talk about patience and waiting in Tolkien's work. Which characters had to exhibit these virtues most? The least? What would have happened if they had not been patient? What enabled Aragorn and Arwen to be so patient in awaiting their fulfillment?

"Don't be hasty!" But this thread will be open only until December 25!
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.
Iolanthe
Uinen
Posts: 2339
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:21 pm
Location: Washing my hair in the Sundering Sea

Post by Iolanthe »

This is a really interesting theme, Merry. 'Patience is a virtue' is a very true adage in LotR. I would say the the character who exhibits it most and is most tested by it is Aragorn.

To spend all that time knowing who he was but resisting the temptation to step forward, resisting revealing that he wasn't Thorongil in Gondor, but the true King - it must have been very hard. He trusted that if he waited there would come a 'right time' when revealing who he was would serve a larger purpose. It really shows his character, putting Middle-earth before his own glory and, of course, his marriage as he couldn't marry Arwen until he was King. There is a great deal of self-sacrifice in staying hidden and obscure.

What if he had stepped forward sooner? Suppose he had left Gandalf to his own travels and stood up one day in Minas Tirith and said 'Well, actually, I'm the King'. Would anyone have believed him? Could he have proved it at that point? How would Gandlaf have managed without his Ranger? Would the War of the Ring been lost?
Now let the song begin! Let us sing together
Of sun, stars, moon and mist, rain and cloudy weather...
Merry
Varda
Posts: 3263
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:01 am
Location: Middle-west

Post by Merry »

I love it the way Tolkien has Aragorn both be the rightful king and kind of earn it along the way: it satisfies all political leanings!

I'm sometimes tempted to think that, as patient as Aragorn had to be, it must have been harder for Arwen. But I imagine elves must experience time in different ways; perhaps it did not seem so long to her.
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.
Iolanthe
Uinen
Posts: 2339
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:21 pm
Location: Washing my hair in the Sundering Sea

Post by Iolanthe »

Gandalf also had to exercise great patience - and knowing the bigger picture must have been a torment. Up until the Council of Elrond he's been largely playing a waiting game. Gathering intel, putting pieces together, watching and waiting for things to come to a head and for the moment of action to arrive.

The Valar certainly gave him the most difficult of roles - like being a Grand-Master chess player but with the added rush of knowing that if you move the wrong piece at the wrong time and to the wrong place an entire world will fall.

Who'd be Gandalf?
Now let the song begin! Let us sing together
Of sun, stars, moon and mist, rain and cloudy weather...
marbretherese
Posts: 765
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:42 pm
Location: Middle England
Contact:

Post by marbretherese »

Merry wrote:I it must have been harder for Arwen. But I imagine elves must experience time in different ways; perhaps it did not seem so long to her.
It may not have seemed so long to Arwen, as you say - but I too suspect she may have found it more difficult than Aragorn. At least he could make himself busy gathering information and moving around Middle-Earth until the time came to make a move. Arwen spent the entire time cloistered either in Rivendell or Lothlorien and had no chance to directly influence events. This must have been frustrating!
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back.
But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy."


http://www.marbretherese.com
http://marbretherese.blogspot.com/
Lindariel
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:30 pm
Location: The Hall of Fire, Imladris (otherwise known as Northern Virginia)

Post by Lindariel »

Marbretherese, I do not see Arwen as a passive figure, and I have written about this in the past:

I wish so badly that Tolkien had taken more time to flesh out Arwen a bit better for us. So many people are left with the impression that she is a completely passive character who does nothing more than sit in Rivendell and weave a banner. She is the daughter of Elrond and granddaughter of Galadriel and Celeborn and a descendant of Luthien the Fair, for heaven's sake! She is a powerful being! Tolkien gives us this tiny insight into her contributions to Aragorn's quest:
Arwen remained in Rivendell, and when Aragorn was abroad, from afar she watched over him in thought; and in hope she made for him a great and kingly standard, such as only one might display who claimed the lordship of the Numenoreans and the inheritance of Elendil.
Who knows what kind of power and protection Arwen gave to Aragorn when she "watched over him from afar" and what this effort cost her? Was she watching over him and protecting him when he ventured into Mordor after ending his sojourn in Gondor as Thorongil? Was she watching over him when he vied with Sauron through the palantir of Orthanc? Did she perhaps assist him in wrestling control of the palantir away from Sauron? Did she experience the horrors of the Paths of the Dead with him? Did she perhaps absorb some of its horrors so that he could do what no other man before him could withstand?

Who knows what kind of magical spells were woven into that "kingly standard" and what contribution it made in assisting Aragorn with his claim to the throne? How much of her vitality and power did Arwen pour into the making of that standard?

Arwen was no passive lady whose only claims to fame were beauty and a certain proficiency with the embroidery hoop. She was a powerful Elven princess blessed with the foresight of her father and the far-seeing of her grandmother, and she certainly inherited more than just her good looks from her ancestress Luthien the Fair. She also inherited Luthien's ability to create items of power through weaving. Remember Luthien's cloak of invisibility woven from her own hair? Remember the "Girdle of Melian," the power of Melian the Maia (Luthien's mother and Arwen's greatest ancestress) woven about Doriath to protect its borders?
Lindariel Image

“Therefore I say: Eä! Let these things Be! And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be.”
Iolanthe
Uinen
Posts: 2339
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:21 pm
Location: Washing my hair in the Sundering Sea

Post by Iolanthe »

I don't think any of us see her as passive, just restricted in what she could do. She couldn't ride at Aragorn's side, be with him, share his peril or any of the most significant areas of his life before the Ring was destroyed. There must have been frustration waiting for events to move forward. Waiting and being passive are two very different things and while events moved with Aragorn she had to watch, hope and weave what magic she could.

She must have though of Luthien sharing all of Beren's quest and facing Morgoth together.
Now let the song begin! Let us sing together
Of sun, stars, moon and mist, rain and cloudy weather...
Chrissiejane
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:48 am
Location: Scotland

Post by Chrissiejane »

I' have previously described Arwen's role as "passive" as Aragorn prepared himself for the crown and throne of Gondor, but on reflection, "passive" is the wrong word. I think of her willing him on through the strength of her love and the power of her mind, but needing to contain her awesome powers and exercise constraint, to allow him to achieve the potential of his own being. I have a sense of Arwen as a hugely powerful partner, who nevertheless knows how to hold back or exercise that power in just the right manner, to allow Aragorn to grow and develop into the role he will play throughout their joint futures.
....her song released the sudden spring, like rising lark and falling rain, and melting water bubbling
marbretherese
Posts: 765
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:42 pm
Location: Middle England
Contact:

Post by marbretherese »

Iolanthe wrote: Waiting and being passive are two very different things and while events moved with Aragorn she had to watch, hope and weave what magic she could.
That's so true, and exactly what I was trying to convey. I don't think of Arwen as passive - sorry if I gave that impression! - but she is restricted.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back.
But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy."


http://www.marbretherese.com
http://marbretherese.blogspot.com/
Merry
Varda
Posts: 3263
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:01 am
Location: Middle-west

Post by Merry »

It is kind of interesting that Luthien gets to run off and have adventures, but not Arwen. A few things come to mind on this: Is it a matter of what they are allowed to do or what they choose to do? Is the difference more about the times or the woman? Or is it, as has been suggested by Chrissiejane, that Aragorn must achieve his kingdom without any help from Xena?
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.
Lindariel
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:30 pm
Location: The Hall of Fire, Imladris (otherwise known as Northern Virginia)

Post by Lindariel »

I think the fate of Arwen's mother Celebrian probably plays heavily into the manner in which Arwen is "sheltered" by her family. I'm amazed Elrond allowed Arwen to travel back and forth from Rivendell to Lothlorien AT ALL after Celebrian's ordeal and eventual departure for the West, and yet we know that Arwen made this journey several times during Aragorn's lifetime. Then again, it is difficult to control a grown daughter, as Thingol certainly learned with Luthien!

My point about Arwen is that, even though she appears to be somewhat cloistered either in Rivendell or Lothlorien, that does not mean she was inactive or even really restrained in any way other than by her own will in the matter. I agree that she had the age, the experience, and the wisdom to realize that Aragorn must pursue and fight for his kingship largely on his own. But this does NOT mean that she took a back seat and waited for him.

Tolkien is quite clear that Arwen watched over Aragorn from afar -- and I do not believe he would have mentioned this if it was not an important factor in Aragorn's ability to sustain his strength and his sense of hope throughout his long and arduous path to the kingship. Whatever psychic or spiritual connection Arwen established with Aragorn -- and maintained over the space of DECADES -- would have been a considerable exercise of power on her part, and no doubt it was draining and difficult to do so.

One could argue that Galadriel herself is similarly cloistered in Lothlorien --Tolkien characterizes the inhabitants of the Golden Wood as being largely cut off from the rest of the world since the rise of the Balrog in Moria -- and I do not for one minute believe that anyone on this forum would suggest that she did not take a very powerful role in the War of the Ring despite her isolation.

Why should we assume that Arwen exercised no power whatsoever on behalf of her beloved, her father, her brothers, her world, simply because she restricted her travel to Rivendell and the Golden Wood? Beyond her efforts for Aragorn, I would imagine she played a very large role in the affairs of both elven enclaves, assisting her father and grandparents with their very heavy responsibilities, providing comfort and assistance to her brothers.

In Rivendell, she is the Lady of the House, standing in the stead of her mother; that is not a small role by any stretch of the imagination. Do not forget that Elrond is considered to be the heir of Gil-Galad and could have taken upon himself the title of High King of the Noldor in Middle-earth. He chose not to take the title, but his actions clearly indicate that he accepted the responsibilities of kingship nonetheless, including the very heavy task of serving as the Bearer of Vilya. After the departure of Celebrian, Arwen would have assumed much of her mother's role as essentially the de facto Queen/Lady of the Noldor. Hence, she is a very powerful person, not only in the sense of the magical/psychic abilities she inherited from her powerful parents, grandparents, and ancestresses (Luthien and Melian), but she is also a powerful person in the sense of having significant responsibilities and authority and in her standing within the larger elven community.

By falling in love with Arwen and choosing her as his Queen, Aragorn not only chose an elven woman of great beauty and wisdom, but perhaps the woman most perfectly suited and best experienced to serve as the Queen of the newly reunited Kingdoms of Gondor and Arnor.

Again, I would maintain that the sole restraint placed upon Arwen's actions is the restraint of her own will, her love for her father, and perhaps a desire to not cause him further distress by placing herself in potential danger. Within those boundaries, however, I believe she was quite free to act in accordance with her wishes and desires, and this would certainly include being of as much assistance to Aragorn as she possibly can without interfering in the actions he must undertake for himself to establish his right to leadership.
Lindariel Image

“Therefore I say: Eä! Let these things Be! And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be.”
Merry
Varda
Posts: 3263
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:01 am
Location: Middle-west

Post by Merry »

Most of what you said is also true of Arwen's brothers, Lindariel, and yet they were knights errant (interesting word, heh?). We get your point, I'm sure, that she did not just sit around and sew. But she was not active in the way that even Galadriel had been in her life. (I still like to imagine her casting down the walls and pits!) I think, too, that elves were in a different point in their history by the time we know Arwen: they were giving up and leaving.

From the vantage point of outside the story, Tolkien had to write Arwen in this way because it calls up all the feel of courtly love from the stories that he is writing the mythology to support.
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.
Chrissiejane
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:48 am
Location: Scotland

Post by Chrissiejane »

I wish we had more from the Professor to flesh this out, but we don't so we're obliged to construct Arwen from our own imaginations and presumptions. I think the quality I see in her during Aragorn's long years of preparation is one of self-restraint, self-discipline and even self-sacrifice. All signs of the power of her own will and of her love for this man, to will him on to become everything that he can be.
And of course she has the added dilemma to face that Aragorn is mortal - meaning hard choices for her to make, future personal sadnesses to face, that her ancestors would not have had to contemplate in their lives.
....her song released the sudden spring, like rising lark and falling rain, and melting water bubbling
Lindariel
Posts: 1062
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:30 pm
Location: The Hall of Fire, Imladris (otherwise known as Northern Virginia)

Post by Lindariel »

Merry, wasn't there a reference in one of Tolkien's letters that he had originally wanted more of Aragorn and Arwen's story to appear in the text, but had to excerpt it to the Appendices in the interest of shortening and tightening the narrative? He also refers to the Story of Arwen and Aragorn as the most important in the Appendices, as it deals most strongly with his theme of "Death as part of nature, physical and spiritual, of Man, and with Hope without guarantees." I believe he also later refers to Arwen's importance as the originator of the plan to send Frodo to the Undying Lands for healing in one of his lengthy footnotes.

I must admit that my somewhat obsessive defense of Arwen's importance in this story and rejection of characterizations of her as passive and inactive comes from my own sense of needing to apologize rather profusely to her. When I first read the books as a teenager, I couldn't be bothered to peruse the Appendices, and for a very long time I nursed a rather HUGE grudge against Arwen for being the "useless Elven princess who robbed Eowyn of her rightful husband." I REALLY thought it was terribly unjust for the valiant Shieldmaiden and Slayer of the Witch King to have to play second fiddle to some "pretty, pampered Elf woman who sat around in comfort during the entire War and did a little embroidery." (Not to diss Faramir at all -- I liked him a lot and was somewhat mollified to know that Eowyn did get to marry a wonderful and exceptional man, but I still felt terrible for her and resented Arwen tremendously. Notice that I never blamed Aragorn in the least . . . wasn't that just dreadful of me?!) Does any of that sound familiar?

Needless to say, when I finally did come across the Tale of Arwen and Aragorn in the Appendices and learned about their decades-long love affair, their patience and sacrifice of their own happiness for the good of all, and Arwen's deep distress at Aragorn's passing and her lonely death on Cerin Amroth, I felt really badly for misconstruing her role and took the time to examine the little clues Tolkien does provide within the text. From there, my respect for her character grew and I began to make connections between her activities on Aragorn's behalf -- watching over him and weaving the banner -- and the power Luthien exerted on Beren's behalf, the role she would have played as the Lady of Rivendell, and my current portrait of a far, far more powerful, more politically active, and magically involved Arwen emerged.

By the way, I'm with you Merry in enjoying the vision of Galadriel casting down the walls of Dol Guldur. I have several versions -- one very Luthien-like in which Galadriel "unmakes" the connections between the very rocks through Song (after all, that is how Arda itself was made); one in which she blasts the tower to pieces with the power of her mind; and a very funny one in which she literally pounds the thing into itty-bitty pieces with a sledgehammer, getting quite dirty in the process. How do you see it happening?
Lindariel Image

“Therefore I say: Eä! Let these things Be! And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be.”
Merry
Varda
Posts: 3263
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 7:01 am
Location: Middle-west

Post by Merry »

Lightning bolts coming out of her hands. :wink:

Ah, so you're compensating! One thing that I think most of us here have in common is having been in love with Aragorn since our first reading. The different ways we have dealt with that are interesting, aren't they? From my first reading, I just put myself in Arwen's silver shoes! (I have dark hair and grey eyes, so that wasn't hard. The fact that I was ten years old doesn't seem to have been an impediment.) I don't think I saw her as passive, but I thought her activities were mysterious: I'm still not sure I understand the whole 'Evenstar of her people' role.

And so I never saw Eowyn as much competition. I liked her very much and loved how she hooked up, as the kids say, with Faramir. But the whole mythic component demanded that Aragorn marry the elven princess, the object of his courtly love, rejoin the half-elven line, unite Maiar, elves, and men, and rain down justice upon Middle-earth.

I do remember reading that looking at the drafts reveals that Arwen was kind of an afterthought; she didn't appear in Tolkien's imagination until very late in the process, which is why she isn't woven into the story very well. You're right: he did put most of it into the appendices because of length and flow, but it was easy to excise it out because it never was really 'in'. But I still think that Arwen's introduction is a powerful one--she is almost presented as a goddess in the Hall of Fire--and is enough to carry us through the story with the knowledge that Aragorn is 'taken'.
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.
Locked