Discussing The Hobbit

Iolanthe · Post by **Iolanthe** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:16 am

Yes, I think so. The Story 'grows-up' moving from a funny little tale to an epic journey and battle, Bilbo 'grows-up' changing from a parochial Hobbit to a bit of a hero, children 'grow-up' through reading it moving away from simple stories with humour to a big story that has tragedy in it to face up to.

No wonder it's gripped so many kids over the years.

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:26 pm

I've read some articles that claim that Tolkien was entranced with the writings on mythology by Joseph Campbell, although I've never found anything that specifically verifies this in Tolkien's own writings. I wonder if it is possibly the case that Tolkien knew the sources as well as Campbell and came up with similar conclusions on his own.

Whatever the case, The Hobbit fits the classic 'journey' motif perfectly. In some ways, it is better constructed than LOTR.

Iolanthe · Post by **Iolanthe** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:30 pm

That's an interesting comment about Campbell. I've got most of his books and treasure them and his wonderful insights, but I must admit it never once occurred to me that Tolkien had read them or even been influenced by them. I think your suggestion that he discovered the Hero's Journey for himself is more likely, steeped as he was in all the ancient mythologies that he could get his hands on. Like Campbell, I think he really understood old stories and what they were really about. But unlike Campbell his inspiration was to then write his own, weaving the same ancient magic, rather than analysing the psychology of them.

Could he really have read Campbell? It would be interesting to know for sure.

Can you expand on why you think The Hobbit is a better constructed Hero Journey than LotR, Merry? It is because it is simpler?

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:00 pm

My guess, such as it is, is that Tolkien had a better idea at the beginning of The Hobbit of where it would end up than he did with LOTR. If we believe the scholars who have studied the drafts, and I see no reason not to, JRRT really had no way of knowing where it would all end up when he began, and much as I hate criticizing him, he does get a bit lost in Fellowship. Hobbit is a bit more linear in construction: ordinary person gets caught up in a journey, has adventures and grows into a hero, and ends up saving the day and returning home better for it. I wonder if this is related to the fact that it began as an oral narrative.

Don't mistake me, though! I think LOTR is the vastly superior book in most ways.

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:35 pm

Five years ago, when the older Miss L was 6 years old, I began reading The Hobbit to her aloud, one chapter per night. At first I wondered if she'd stick with such a long story, but she was absolutely engrossed and wanted MORE after the story ended. I wound up reading all of LOTR to her aloud as well. Quite an undertaking, but we just loved having that time together each evening.

Now the younger Miss L is approaching age 6 (end of January), and I decided to start reading The Hobbit to her over the holidays, just to see if it would engage her as well. We started on Christmas Eve, and I will be reading Chapter 3 tonight. Well, she is enthralled, and her older sister has joined us each evening, thoroughly thrilled to hear the story all over again. I have a feeling we will be taking the full journey together. News that PJ & Co. have reached an agreement with New Line and MGM to executive produce The Hobbit and a sequel movie have further fueled their desire to hear the entire story in full before the movies come out.

See, I'm doing my part to build the next generation of Tolkien enthusiasts! Happy holidays to all!

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:47 am

A Call For Volunteers

With all the renewed interest in The Hobbit (with the announcement of the impending movie version), I think it would be advantageous and FUN to do a Hobbit calendar similar to our Great Years Calendar. What do you think?

There is a wonderful list of important Hobbit dates on pages 98-99 in Fonstad's Atlas of ME that we could use as a starting place. A bit of research into the book itself as well as The Annotated Hobbit would add a few more actual dates as well.

I am in the process of pulling together some appropriate accompanyimg artwork to highlight the calendar as with the GYC, but I could sure use some help with the project as a whole if anyone has the time and is interested.

Besides the Fonstad dates, does anyone who enjoys research have time to check for anymore dates in the texts themselves (although Fonstad was known to be very thorough)?

Please revisit the GYC and look at the format. It is pretty simple. Some of you helped us enormously with that one. We will use the same format. If anyone is interested in helping with the write ups, i will be more than happy to break out the dates for all of us to take.

I think this will be as fun and informative as the work we did on the GYC, with some very professional looking and sounding results. Anybody besides me up for it?

Iolanthe · Post by **Iolanthe** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:54 pm

It sounds like fun and not as daunting as writing for the Great Year's Calendar (I was very daunted by that!). I'm up for helping with some of the write-ups, although I doubt I can come up with any extra dates beyond Fonstad's work!

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:59 pm

That would be a great way to get to know the text better, RR. I have to admit to having read Hobbit only a few times. I'm away from my books now, but I'll take a look to see what I can find, although it would not surprise me that there are few specific dates in the text. I'd be glad to help with writing, too, but I really want to encourage anyone who has not been part of a calendar team to sign up! It's a great creative way to learn and to help others to do so as well.

elentarivarda · Post by **elentarivarda** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:21 pm

In checking out the Great Years Calendar...I just have to say, that thing is awesome!

I'd be happy to help out...as a librarian, I'm kind of a research-a-holic.

Iolanthe · Post by **Iolanthe** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:30 pm

Kewl

.

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:34 am

Riv, I'd be happy to chip in and help out as well! Might need some assistance with finding and posting artwork to go with my entries. I'm a bit technically challenged when it comes to graphics.

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:59 pm

Thanks for the offers everyone. We will use Alan Lee's work again for the artwork for each date. He has done some wonderful pieces based on The Hobbit. I have already pulled them and downloaded them to our webpages. We would just have to choose the wone we want for a particualr date. That should keep it simple.

Almost everything is ready to go for the project...but...ONE important question...

When we did The Great Years Calendar, we posted those entries on the actual date they happened. The Hobbit calendar does not start until April 25. Don we want to wait that long or shall we just start and post now?

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:54 pm

My vote would be to wait. I like experiencing the calendar in real time, in the season that Tolkien describes.

elentarivarda · Post by **elentarivarda** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:20 pm

Lindariel wrote:Five years ago, when the older Miss L was 6 years old, I began reading The Hobbit to her aloud, one chapter per night. At first I wondered if she'd stick with such a long story, but she was absolutely engrossed and wanted MORE after the story ended. I wound up reading all of LOTR to her aloud as well. Quite an undertaking, but we just loved having that time together each evening.

That's wonderful Lindariel!

Iolanthe · Post by **Iolanthe** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 1:02 pm

Merry wrote:My vote would be to wait. I like experiencing the calendar in real time, in the season that Tolkien describes.

I must admit I do too. Maybe in that time we can try and identify more dates!