The Lord of the Rings - A General Discussion Thread

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:50 am

Well, according to our banner, March 6 is the day that the Dunedain (and the sons of Elrond) catch up with Aragorn in Rohan. I remember, on my first reading, feeling that that meant everything might be okay after all. Gotta love those Dunedain!

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:47 pm

The cavalry has arrived!! Yes...I also felt a little better. I liked the idea that at last...other than Legolas...a couple more high powered Elves had joined the effort. I especially liked it that they came to the aid of someone they had watched grow up and come into his own.

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:27 am

Hey, everybody! I need your help in finding a quote or two in LOTR. I think that Gandalf, maybe, was fond of saying something about how the strategems of the Enemy were going to come back to bite him (except it was undoubtedly more elegantly put than that!). Aragorn may have said something similar. I don't think I'm just talking about one time. Does anybody remember what chapter or chapters?

We're having some political in-fighting at school, and one of these quotes describes events perfectly!

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:38 am

Merry, there is a longer passage about all of this in the chapter The Last Debate where both Gandalf and Aragorn are strategizing before going to the Black Gate.

Let me know if that doesn't do it for you.

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:56 am

I just read that chapter, Riv Res, and what I'm looking for isn't there. My memory of this is vague, so I hope I haven't made this up!

Maybe I'll read the Council of Elrond tonight to see if it's there.

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:19 am

I am not sure this will do at all Merry, but also from the chapter The Palantir...

'Strange powers have our enemies and strange weaknesses!' said Theoden. 'But it has long been said, oft evil will shall evil mar.'

Tolkien seems to dance all around that subject in that chapter Merry. But I don't see a quote that truly nails it.

Iolanthe · Post by **Iolanthe** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:37 pm

I must admit I'm stumped, Merry, The Last Debate is also the only place I could think of looking.

Philipa · Post by **Philipa** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:28 pm

Ironically enough, it sounds so familiar but I wouldn't know where to look.

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:43 am

Theoden's quote says it well enough, but I think, or rather feel, that I'm looking for something else. And I have a feeling Aragorn said it.

I'm usually not this vague! Thanks for your help, everybody. You know who might get this, if it's there? Lindariel. She's the best Tolkien text person I know.

librislove · Post by **librislove** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:47 am

Would it be from "Flotsam and Jetsam," where Aragorn tells Merry and Pippin that "Saruman at any rate is in a cleft stick of his own making"?

And in "The White Rider," Gandalf refers to Saruman's treachery toward Mordor by saying " Yet a treacherous weapon is ever a danger to the hand."

Any help here?

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:04 pm

Hi, librislove! Thanks for helping in the search. Those lines convey the message I'm looking for, certainly, but again, I have this feeling that there is something else that hits the nail on the head. Of course, I could be making this all up!

Philipa · Post by **Philipa** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:18 pm

Merry wrote:Of course, I could be making this all up!

Oh yes, that's it. You are conspiring to up the post count.

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:25 pm

Merry, have you re-read The Council of Elrond to see if there is anything there?

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:25 am

Yes, I did that this afternoon. Nada. Sorry, everybody: I hope this isn't a wild goose chase. In the meantime, though, I think we have enough quotes for a nice article!

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:53 am

I was reading the new Shippey book, and here's what I found in his chapter on "Proverbiality in Tolkien" that might apply:

Gandalf -- "Often does hatred hurt itself." -- The Voice of Saruman, TTT
Aragorn -- "The hasty stroke often goes awry." -- The Passing of the Grey Company, ROTK
Gandalf -- "Work of the Enemy! Such deeds he loves: friend at war with friend; loyalty divided in confusion of hearts." -- The Pyre of Denethor, ROTK
Gandalf -- "A traitor may betray himself and do good he does not intend." (Shippey identified this one, but I haven't been able to find it. It should be somewhere in ROTK)

Does this help, Merry? Sorry to be late to this conversation. I have been dealing with a rather sick child this weekend. Fortunately, the younger Miss L seems to be on the mend at last.

The Lord of the Rings - A General Discussion Thread

Merry's quote