Tolkien Trivia

cross_harps · Post by **cross_harps** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:50 pm

What relation is Radagast to Gandalf?

Philipa · Post by **Philipa** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:00 am

Relations as in 'relation'? I know he was one of the Istari, Radagast the Brown they called him. Nice guy, talked to animals and such but not a key player as they say.

cross_harps · Post by **cross_harps** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:32 am

Yes, as in a family relationship.

Philipa · Post by **Philipa** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:01 pm

You know more than I. On checking The Sil and LoTR I can't find any mention of Radagast being family of Gandalf.

cross_harps · Post by **cross_harps** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:49 pm

It's in The Hobbit!

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:52 pm

I believe at some point Gandalf refers to Radagast as a "brother" wizard, but this does not connote a familial relationship. He could just as easily have called Radagast a "fellow" wizard.

According to the Unfinished Tales, Gandalf/Olorin was a Maia of the "people of Manwe and Varda," and Radagast/Aiwendil was a Maia of "the people of Yavanna." I don't see how they could have a familial relationship unless it was by marriage, and there is no canonical indication of such a relationship that I am aware of.

If you know of a familial relationship between Gandalf and Radagast, I'm very curious to know the source.

cross_harps · Post by **cross_harps** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:07 pm

In the Hobbit, Radagast is actally identifying as being "a cousin from Queer Lodgings."

I'll check in my book and see if I can figure a way to guide you to it, as I'm sure we all have different editions. I'm really enjoying the wonderful 70th anniversary edition that I got last year. It has many of Tolkien's own paintings included, including the one of Smaug sitting atop his pile of treasure. That's one of my favorites. And Rivendell, and Hobbiton, etc.

I wrote this question down a couple of months ago, so it might take some digging for me to find it, so why doesn't someone else post a new question for us to work on?

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:10 pm

Hah! I think I've found it. In the chapter entitled "Queer Lodgings," Gandalf refers to him as "my good cousin Radagast" when he goes with Thorin & Co. to meet Beorn.

However, I do not believe that Tolkien meant for us to literally believe that Gandalf and Radagast were actually "cousins" in a familial sense, as in "our parents were siblings." Like the Ainur, the Maiar are the "offspring of his [Eru Iluvatar's] thought," and thus do not have "parents." Actually, since they both sprang from Eru's thought, it might be more accurate to describe them as "brothers," but that would be totally missing the mark. They really are creatures beyond our human understanding.

I think Gandalf used the term "my good cousin" simply to denote a close collegial relationship with Radagast in terms that a man like Beorn could understand. After all, the wizard was anxious for Beorn to accept Thorin & Co. and offer them shelter and assistance, so implying a family relationship with someone Beorn knew and respected was probably a really good ploy to get into the big man's good graces.

While Cross Harps is checking her sources, here's another question -- Level 1:

We know that Thorin gave Bilbo the milthril coat and a belt of pearls and crystals to hold Sting. What else did Thorin give Bilbo?

Philipa · Post by **Philipa** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm

Some of Thorin's dying words,

" Since I leave now all gold and silver, and go where it is of little worth, I wish to part in friendship from you, and I would take back my words and deeds at the Gate ... "

Perhaps it's not what you are looking for but to me Thorin gives Bilbo his apology.

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:00 pm

Philipa, that is a lovely thought and would be a good answer, but Thorin actually did give Bilbo one other very tangible item. I find it odd that it is never mentioned in LOTR in association with the mithril coat and belt.

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:31 pm

It's been five days, so I'll fill you in on the other item. From "Not at Home":

"Mr Baggins!" he [Thorin] cried. "Here is the first payment of your reward! Cast off your old coat and put on this!"

With that he put on Bilbo a small coat of mail, wrought for some young elf-prince long ago. It was of silver-steel, which the elves call mithril, and with it went a belt of pearls and crystals. A light helm of figured leather strengthened beneath with hoops of steel, and studded about the brim with white gems, was set upon the hobbit's head.

"I feel magnificent," he thought; "but I expect I look rather absurd. How they would laugh on the Hill at home! Still I wish there was a looking-glass handy!"

Thorin gave Bilbo a helm! And thank goodness, because it probably saved the little hobbit's life:

"The Eagles!" cried Bilbo once more, but at that moment a stone hurtling from above smote heavily on his helm, and he fell with a crash and knew no more . . . .

"A nasty knock on the head, I think," said Bilbo. "But I have a helm and a hard skull. All the same I feel sick and my legs are like straws."

And that is the last mention of the helm. At the end of the tale, The Professor tells us that Bilbo hung Sting over his mantelpiece and displayed the mithril coat on a stand in the hall until he loaned it to a Museum (probably the Mathom House in Michel Delving).

But the helm vanishes from Professor Tolkien's text. My best guess is that it was dented beyond repair by the stone, but I would still think Bilbo would want to keep it in Thorin's memory, and it just seems odd that the Professor never mentions it again. I wonder what became of it?

Well, that is more than enough from me. Philipa, since you ventured a guess, would you like to provide us with the next Trivia Question?

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:34 pm

Good find, Lindariel, and good question about what happened to the helm. I suppose we must guess that it was lost in the chaos of the aftermath of the war.

Philipa · Post by **Philipa** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:20 am

Of course! I had completely forgotten the helm. Terrific question Lindariel. I'm off to bed when I checked in, I'll have a question tomorrow in the evening if that's ok?

Philipa · Post by **Philipa** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:17 pm

Here is the next trivia question:

How old is Roac son of Carc?

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:42 pm

Since no one else appears to be "biting," Philipa, I'll provide an answer. After all, I wrote up that part of The Hobbit for our calendar!

Roac is indeed a very old fellow!:

"It is a hundred years and three and fifty since I came out of the egg . . ."

Can't imagine what a 153 year-old bird would look like!

Here's my level 1 question:

In the Professor's works, on how many occasions does he refer to a road that goes "ever on and on"?