Middle-earth Journeys

It was the Silmarillian version - otherwise we would have been there hours! I'd forgotten how dramatic the story is. Reading it in the book its almost too far-fetched, but hearing it read aloud it seemed real and gripping. I would never have expected such a difference.

Ah... the Aragorn standee. Where would I have put him?

Welllllllll . . . you could pack him in a nice sturdy crate and send him to me! I have a spot for him!

I think either somewhere here or over at WRoR, I confessed that I seriously considered swiping the life-size Aragorn standee from our local video store back during promotions for the release of the FOTR DVD. However, some enterprising soul beat me to the punch. And I salute them -- they have excellent taste!

Thanks for the link to the Normans on the BBC, marbretherese. I wish I could see the series; maybe they'll show it over here some day. I remember memorizing 1066 in grade school, although I often got the Norman Conquest and the Spanish Armada confused!

So I imagine that, in addition to confiscating land and forcing people to drink wine and speak French, there was just a lot of plain murder going on during the Conquest? I suppose that if you kill enough people, fewer of the population will remember their storied tradition.

One point that Shippey made, that helps explain it, was that the Normans were in control of education, and although the uneducated would have carried on with their traditions and stories, they didn't have the means to record it.

Today was a double treat as Shippey was speaking again, this time outside the Conference as part of the more general Fan Expo Schedule. He’d changed his scheduled talk to one about leadership in Tolkien, particularly in terms of providing examples for a theoretical ‘leadership training course’ (which had been inspired in turn by a Finnish essay that he’d read which he thought had raised interesting questions).

This was another entertaining talk. I especially loved Shippey’s comment that we used to have Leadership, followed by Management and now we have Administration. How true! Shippey identified several types of leadership in Tolkien, with Theoden as an example of the Sacrificial Leader who gets killed encouraging his troops. He talked about WW2 leader General Slim, who was in the same year as Tolkien at St. Edwards and in who’s career (Shippey felt) Tolkien must have taken some interest because he’d known him. Slim, Shippey said, was one General who understood the ‘sacrificial leader’ concept, having managed to get himself shot twice after becoming a General . Slim is also famously quoted as saying that ‘nothing encourages troops more than a dead general.’ Denethor, on the other hand, was a Suicidal Leader, invisible where the sacrificial leader is visible, overcome with despair and unable to act. Saruman was an example of a Persuasive Leader, whereas Gandalf most certainly wasn’t, being a suggester, not a persuader. Then there are Counsellor Leaders like Galadriel and Elrond. Shippey quipped that the Council of Elrond is like a big committee meeting, but Elrond is no Chairman, letting everyone have their say without hurrying things back to a supposed point. He was quite funny describing how things might have turned out with a ‘proper’ Chairman. There are over 20 speakers at the Council (some speaking by proxy) and Elrond doesn’t impose himself or try to move things on.

The ideal leader in LotR, though, is Aragorn. Decisive at the end of TTT (who they follow, whether they would go on or rest), not absolutely certain all his decisions must be right but certain a decision has to be made. Self-effacing (he won’t enter Minas Tirith as King until the time is right). He can put himself forward or take himself back. He doesn’t try to persuade - those that go with him to the Paths of the Dead make their own decisions.

Amusingly Shippey said that if the Fellowship was an army corps, then Gimil in TTT was a long serving Private and ‘at the back grumbler’.

Shippey then compared leadership in the book to how leadership is presented in the films and found they were very different. In the book the retreat to Helm’s Deep is a necessary strategic decision, but in the movie Gandalf clashes with Theoden over it and tries to talk him out of it. He said many of the changes (which would include Aragorn’s hesitation about being King, I guess) were because scriptwriters believed characters needed a ‘Journey’. Eowyn gets a bigger journey, with some TTT scenes ‘stripmined’ from other conversations in ROTK. Arwen gets a TTT journey that doesn’t exist in the book at all. Faramir and Elrond also get changed journeys with added tension. Saruman’s ‘journey’ is removed altogether, as is Denethor’s as Steward. Shippey quipped that ‘surely the Ringwraithes must have had a journey’. In the film, leadership is about Personal Development, some leadership decisions (unlike in the book) become group decisions and what causes evil to prosper is some kind of moral failure. I must admit my own massive failure in my note taking at this point, but I can pick it up again where he cited Bilbo as an example of moral courage. The sort of lonely courage that pushes the character on to do difficult things even when there is no one there to witness.

I hope this gives you a taster of the talk – there was a lot, lot more but I can’t give a more detailed account of it from my miserable notes and it probably wouldn’t be right to anyway. See – I didn’t spend all day in the Art Exhibition! There were even moments when I actually wasn’t even thinking about the Art Exhibition. Well… maybe just a wee bit.

Between all these goodies there was a great deal of tea drinking and a few slabs of Bara Brith (a traditional Welsh fruit loaf with butter) to sustain us. After Shippey’s talk I headed back to the Conference Room for yet another paper – this time by Melissa R. Arul on Elvish Identity - where I suffered from complete brain-failure and didn’t take any notes at all. It was probably post-Shippey syndrome and I just couldn’t concentrate any longer, although I did listen and found it very interesting. I’ve no idea what Marbretherese and Jonick did but it could have involved more cake and tea. But I’m betting they didn’t go to the Hairy Feet Competition in the main pavilion. Now, if there had been a Best Cow competition I’m betting Marbretherese would have been there with her camera like a shot.

Then it’s all a bit of a blur until 5.45 when we were back in the hall to hear Rodney Matthews’ first talk about his art. Or specifically his early life (which was pretty wild while touring with a band) and how he eventually became an artist. Rodney is a real character and illustrated the talk by holding up posters of his work. I wanted to ask him more about his technique (so I too could paint fantasy trees worthy of Arthur Rackham at his best) but it was getting late and dinner was calling (despite being pigged out on Bara Brith). So I still don’t know how he did it!


So we headed back to the Bunglow and then on to a typical ye olde Welsh pub, called The Black Lion. Probably The Black Lion, but it could have been The Black Bull. Or The Black Boar. Or The Black Cow. Or The Black Endangered Rhino. Absolutely definitely The Black Some Large Animal Or Other. I was still too Shippeyed to remember. It passed very well for a Hobbit hostelry because the food was terrific and it appeared to be run by a Hobbit. At least, he was a bit tall for a Hobbit, but he was beaming like one and was definitely wearing the kind of waistcoat Bilbo would have loved and he had an Ent on the bar. OK, not a complete Ent, but a small model of Treebeard. I had the Steak and Ale pie and I could have lived off it for supper, breakfast, second breakfast and lunch. Then it was off back to the Pavilion where Brocc were on stage. Brocc are a group of singers and musicians who describe themselves as ‘rooted in the myths and legends of our land’. They all wore rather mysterious masks and costumes and played a bewildering array of different old instruments between them, including Breton bagpipes, the hurdy gurdy, harps and ‘bowed psaltery’. It was all energetic and really wonderful.


I can’t believe all this was packed into one day! I was quite glad to crawl back to my skating bed for another night of skimming around my polished bedroom floor dreaming of giant Steak and Ale Pies.

I was delighted that Tom Shippey was just as informative and entertaining in his second talk as he had been in his first. Iolanthe has given you the gist, so I'll just add some points which struck me:

- Tolkien's ideas could be turned into a sort of " LOTR for Business Studies", with the following rules: don't ask others to do what you wouldn't do; any decision is better than none; fine words butter no parsnips (a reference to spin).

- Tolkien's ideas of heroism are not current: taking Sam as an example: courage should not depend on hope & a major component of courage is cheerfulness. Here he quoted Field Marshal Slim: the dominant feeling on the battlefield is loneliness. What keeps you going? moral courage, the kind that Bilbo had.

- another military analogy which evolves throughout LOTR: never mind what other people are doing or what you think they are doing; "look to your front", do your best and trust that others are too. In the book the Palantirs show the folly of expectation - all who use them get the wrong impression. In the films they are merely a means of communication.

- Tolkien's fantasy world is a way of addressing the issues of the 20th century with emotional depth and is therefore not escapist.

After Shippey II, Jonick and I stayed in the Fan Expo hall for Colin Duriez's talk "Tolkien & CS Lewis - the gift of Friendship". He emphasised the mutual admiration the two men had for each other despite their very different temperaments and backgrounds. Just as Tolkien's Catholic-based writings and love of myth gave Lewis proof of Christian faith, Lewis went on to persuade others, reconciling imagination and reason. Both men disliked the dehumanising effect of machines. They disagreed on theological matters - Tolkien disapproved of Lewis's religious broadcasts, for example, as he felt such things should be left to priests rather than laymen. Both men created worlds based on the topography of the areas where they grew up - Narnia has it's coast to the east, like Northern Ireland, whereas Middle Earth's coast is to the West like England & Wales. And there appears to be no photo of the two men together. One final phrase which struck me: " Full fantasy is by definition a subversive form to change the reader".

After this we had an engaging and lively talk from Rene van Rossenberg about the world of the Tolkien Collector,which he began by confiding that all collectors are mad. And of course collecting is not about the stuff itself but the story it tells us. It's important not to go overboard - you need boundaries - for example, he chose to collect everything to do with Tolkien in print - ie not figurines or merchandise. He also had some interesting things to say about Tolkien in different languages and how the value can be affected by how good the translation is.

As Iolanthe has mentioned, our final talk of the day was from Bristol-based artist Rodney Matthews. It was through other members of his rock band that he discovered Tolkien - they encouraged him to read The Hobbit and he was struck by the images which Tolkien's writing conjured up in his mind (I guess many of us can empathise with that!). His actual phrase was that Tolkien conjures up "images which are difficult to keep your hands off". Rodney has also illustrated other fantasy authors such as Jules Verne and Lewis Carroll.

We were thrilled to find a pub like the Black Lion in such an out-of-the-way place and only sorry we weren't staying long enough to try out the whole menu. Jonick and I spent a happy half hour trying to get a mobile phone signal so I could ring my Dad - in the end we walked nearly a mile out of the village to a field of sheep - before going back to the Festival to be entertained by Brocc. I'm glad Iolanthe's photos of Brocc have come out, because mine are rubbish!

All this and we're still only at the end of day one of the Festival. . . .

I am really enjoying these reports! Thanks so much, Iolanthe and marbretherese, for taking the time to take notes and transcribe them for us. "Fine words butter no parsnips" is now my favorite quote! I may embroider it on a sampler!

I'm still thinking about Normans. My family name is actually Norman, although the family line took a long trip through Ireland and we consider ourselves Irish, along with all the traditions, attitudes, etc., and even some redheads! The article about the BBC series mentions that the Normans conquered through Ireland, too, but is it the case that the Irish hung on to their roots more? At least in the case of many families, sure, the Normans conquered at the time, but the Irishness prevailed in the long run. Or I may not know what I'm talking about!

I love Shippey's insight into leadership! (I am plagued by 'administrators' who are not leaders, who do not do what they say everyone should do. Bring on Aragorn!) That Elrond did not 'chair' the Council is also a great insight: the free peoples of Middle-earth are not to be managed, but listened to, and concensus was reached pretty much on its own. Shippey's insights into 'look to your front' are also in one of the articles that we read in Root and Branch, right?

I wonder how Duriez knew of Tolkien's attitudes about laymen preaching religion. I know he didn't think much of CSL's apologetic work, but I always thought it was because he thought it was superficial in itself. Did Duriez mention his sources on this?

I'm enjoying your photos, too. Professor Shippey is looking hale! Retirement must agree with him.

He looks very well, doesn't he?

Thanks for clearing up the bit about the loneliness of men on the battlefield and how it tied up to Bilbo's courage, Marbretherese. Now you've mentioned it I remember it but I couldn't make head-or-tail of the connection from my notes which sort of fizzled out at that point.

As to the Normans in Ireland (I confess I hadn't realised that they had landed in Ireland!) there is a very interesting article here:

Libraryireland.com

Thanks for the link, Iolanthe!

I don't think Duriez mentioned any sources. I'm hoping that the Conference papers will be published, and if so presumably sources will be given then - and we'll get a chance to read the talks we missed!

Please let us know if they are published, marbretherese--I'd like to read them, too.

Our Irish family never had the desire to research our family tree--too afraid of all the drunks and horsethieves that might be found there! Reading that history reminds me that we probably made a good decision on that.

Merry wrote: I wonder how Duriez knew of Tolkien's attitudes about laymen preaching religion. I know he didn't think much of CSL's apologetic work, but I always thought it was because he thought it was superficial in itself. Did Duriez mention his sources on this?

Colin mentions his source in his book, 'JRR Tolkien and CS Lewis: The Story of their Friendship' (Sutton Publishing; Stroud, Gloucestershire 2003; p.124).

In a letter to Kathleen Ferrer, Tolkien wrote that 'if her husband, the outstanding theologian Austin Ferrer', had started writing theology for lay people a few years earlier, "the world would have been spared" C.S. Lewis!

(Colin is quoting here from an unpublished letter written by Tolkien on Whit Sunday , 1956. The letter is at the Wade Center).

Now, I'm sure I've seen references to Tolkien's insistence (that preaching ought to be left to the clergy) somewhere else, and more recently than 2003; but I'm blessed if I can remember where at the moment. I'll get back to you, if and when I remember.

Iolanthe wrote:
Well, Marbretherese, Jonick and I are back from another Excellent Adventure at the Festival in the Shire and had a fantastic time listening to Tom Shippey, Verlyn Flieger, John Garth and a host of other major speakers, listening to some wonderful music, seeing Tolkien inspired art and hearing the Tale of Beren and Luthien magically told. There are many more things to tell you, so I've created this thread where we can share our Festival reports with you when we manage to get around to writing them!

The talks sound wonderful; as I'd expect from the likes of Shippey, Flieger et al. I've had the pleasure of hearing Tom speak on a number of occassions, and he's always loud, funny, and deeply serious about his passion for Tolkien - and one of the most learned you're likely to meet on his subject. And, he has the great gift of making his listeners (well, me at any rate) feel that they can _understand_ exactly what he's getting at, so they must be a little bit learned, too! The sign of a good teacher!

Me and mrs g. also spent a little time with Dr. Flieger at the Aston conference in Brum back in 2005 - she's a lovely lady; very approachable, as are all the speakers I've met.

I'd have loved to have met Rodney Matthews; and Paul Gregory, and Roger Garland. I have a passion for Tolkien related art, and these guys are among the few Tolkien inspired artists I haven't met yet! Which is why I am so sad that me and mrs geordie couldn't go - the cost of two full tickets (520 GBP) is so horrific that we couldn't contemplate it, esp. since our best estimate of four nights away would bring the cost up to 800 pounds! Then add fuel and food, and purchases at the event, and we're talking over a grand, which we just couldn't afford.

I've been looking round the web for feedback on the event; apart from the glowing tributes here there doesn't seem to be much yet in the way of comment, but some folk seem unhappy with the 'festival' part of the event at any rate. Iolanthe - did you and Marbretherese see much of that? And what was in the exhibition, exactly? We were promised signed copies of Tolkien's works, among other never-before-seen exhibits. I'd have been very frustrated (the conference notwithstanding) if they hadn't delivered what was promised.

geordie wrote:...he has the great gift of making his listeners (well, me at any rate) feel that they can understand exactly what he's getting at, so they must be a little bit learned, too! The sign of a good teacher!

That sums Shippey up so well! I've also had the privilege of hearing Verlyn Flieger before (as has Merry) and her talks at the Festival were wonderful. She is - as you say - very nice and easy to talk to. She can also really stir things up, which can be very entertaining. When I can get a bit more time (probably Wednesday now, as this is a crazy week) I'll write up a bit more about the Festival and give an account of her talks, which I'm sure Marbretherese will add to to.

Regarding the artists - Roger Garland couldn't be at the Festival for personal reasons so hopefully he'll be able to come another year. I don't think Paul Raymond Gregory was ever coming, but was always going ot be an exhibitor. He did send over three or four of his pieces for the exhibition. There were also a lot of paintings by Ruth Lacon (who attended and spoke at the Conference), Stephen Walsh (who was also there and who gave at talk about his art), some of Garland's works, one Ted Nasmith, prints by Ivan Cavini, a LOT of Matthew's work and - of course - some of mine. There may have been more I've overlooked...

geordie wrote:I've been looking round the web for feedback on the event; apart from the glowing tributes here there doesn't seem to be much yet in the way of comment, but some folk seem unhappy with the 'festival' part of the event at any rate. Iolanthe - did you and Marbretherese see much of that? And what was in the exhibition, exactly? We were promised signed copies of Tolkien's works, among other never-before-seen exhibits. I'd have been very frustrated (the conference notwithstanding) if they hadn't delivered what was promised.

There were some really interesting collectors items in the Exhibition, geordie, including signed works!

We were mainly at the Conference, which was very successful and also at the Fan Expo talks (also very good). We didn't have the time to go to much of the general Festival stuff, but I gather there were teething problems and some performers who couldn't, in the end, make it which caused scheduling problems. I would have liked to see more book stalls and merchandise stalls there, but I think this is something that will grow and hopefully those glitches will be ironed out.

I do know that most of the work was done by enthusiastic volunteers who worked like Trojans throughout the three days and who are owed a heap of praise for the efforts they put in!

geordie, thanks for the reference to the Ferrer letter and, yes, if you remember any other references about lay and clerical theologians, I'd love to know about it. Pretty cutting remark about CSL! although he does seem to admire at least one lay theologian's work.

thanks Geordie - I had a feeling that Tolkien's remark about CSL would be in the Letters somewhere (I really must read them again some time!). And in Duriez's book, of course!

Given that this was the first Shire Festival, I think over all the organisers did well, and have lots of ideas to take forward to the next one. We chose to stay at Parc Teifi and make the long weekend our annual holiday; some people camped in a field next to the conference site to keep costs down, but unfortunately I'm not the camping type