Members' Art, Prose and Poetry

marbretherese · Post by **marbretherese** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:20 am

I would say that Aragorn is symbolised by the Sun and Arwen by the Moon. In astrology, the Sun rules Leo (King of the Jungle), signifying creativity and power - a masculine, fixed sign. The Moon rules Cancer, signifying the materinal instinct, intuition and the emotions - not in a passive embroidery-hoop wielding way, for Cancer is in fact a feminine cardinal sign, which denotes strength & leadership.

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:33 pm

I would hesitate to apply astrological metaphors to Tolkien's work. In his mythology, the Sun is female and the Moon is male. From "Of the Sun and Moom and the Hiding of Valinor" in The Silmarillion:

The maiden whom the Valar chose from among the Maiar to guide the vessel of the Sun was named Arien, and he that steered the island of the Moon was Tilion.

Both Arwen and her ancestress Luthien were identified most prominently with starlight, not moonlight:

The leaves were long, the grass was green,
The hemlock-umbels tall and fair,
And in the glade a light was seen
Of stars in shadow shimmering.
Tinuviel was dancing there
To music of a pipe unseen,
And light of stars was in her hair,
And in her raiment glimmering . . . .

As Beren looked into her eyes
Within the shadows of her hair,
The trembling starlight of the skies
He saw there mirrored shimmering.

The braids of her dark hair were touched by no frost, her white arms and clear face were flawless and smooth, and the light of stars was in her bright eyes, grey as a cloudless night . . . . Above her brow her head was covered with a cap of silver lace netted with small gems glittering white . . . . So it was that Frodo saw her whom few mortals had yet seen; Arwen, daughter of Elrond, in whom it was said that the likeness of Luthien had come on earth again; and she was called Undomiel, for she was the Evenstar of her people.

marbretherese · Post by **marbretherese** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:18 pm

I accept your point, Lindariel - and I freely admit that my familiarity with The Sil is, shall we say, sketchy

Starlight it is!

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:56 pm

I think Tolkien's point is more about Arwen's association with evening and the end of the dominance of Elves in Middle-earth than a strict association with any particular heavenly body. You've got to love Frodo's line when seen in that light: that even the diminishing of the Elves is lovely and blessed. Part of that, I guess, is that the children of Elessar and Evenstar will carry on their lines and memories.

I imagine that all of this was meant by JRRT to be sort of loose subliminal connections rather than strict x = y equations, just like his warning about allegory. I wonder sometimes how conscious he himself was of all the meanings possible in the texts.

Philipa · Post by **Philipa** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:01 am

Tolkien made a lousy pagan.

Iolanthe · Post by **Iolanthe** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:16 am

.

I guess there is a huge number of connections in his texts that he didn't conciously make. It just shows how completely steeped he was in all things Middle-earth! I can see them weaving themselves in his subconcious and emerging with a sort of 'rightness' as he put pen to paper.

marbretherese · Post by **marbretherese** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:02 pm

Merry wrote: I imagine that all of this was meant by JRRT to be sort of loose subliminal connections rather than strict x = y equations, just like his warning about allegory. I wonder sometimes how conscious he himself was of all the meanings possible in the texts.

This is so true., and somehow I can't imagine JRRT checking his horoscope . . . esoteric astrology works with archetypes and draws on myth, and JRRT was also drawing on myth, so there are bound to be resonances - which are not however directly comparable. I shall be more cautious in future!

I have been pondering on Arwen and the stars, though, and I'm kicking myself for missing the obvious: the planet known as the Evening Star (by astrologers and astronomers alike) is Venus . . . .

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:52 pm

Except in Tolkien's astrology the Evening Star/Venus is Earendil, Arwen's grandfather. Venus is male!

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:47 pm

See how evocative your artwork is, marbretherese, that it has generated such a discussion!

Philipa, I think JRRT would have enjoyed your comment--for he's a pretty good pagan, as far as Catholics go!

marbretherese · Post by **marbretherese** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:06 pm

Merry wrote:See how evocative your artwork is, marbretherese, that it has generated such a discussion!

Philipa, I think JRRT would have enjoyed your comment--for he's a pretty good pagan, as far as Catholics go!

It is a good discussion, isn't it! I should clarify: Arwen is also known as Evenstar (Undómiel). - I was thinking along those lines. According to Wikipedia:

Title of Arwen, Queen to Aragorn II Elessar, referring not only to her radiant beauty, but also to her descent: the evening star was the light of the last Silmaril, bound to the brow of her grandfather Eärendil.

It's not an exact comparison (I've given those up, remember

) but it is a link.

It's intriguing that Tolkien has turned the traditional myths of the planets on their heads. At some point I will get round to re-reading The Sil and will try and make a special note of them!

I'm aware we have wandered well off-topic and I feel a bit bad about that, but it's all so interesting!

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:23 pm

As long as it is Tolkien...it will never be off topic.

Iolanthe · Post by **Iolanthe** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:45 pm

I've finally produced another painting. I've struggled with the intended Aragorn painting in my mind for ages, but I just couldn't see it. I generally wait for complete paintings to pop into my head, then I put them on paper

. But this did pop into my head

.

Telperion's Children

I'm not going to give you the title yet, I'm just going to let you all look at it and tell me what you all see there and what links all the different things in the painting together

.

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:22 pm

Stunning Iolanthe!! I am without words (unusual for me)! The detail is glorious and the coloring so soft and natual compared to your other pieces. To me it embodies all that the House of Elendil brought to Middle-earth from Numenor...to me the one word that comes to mind is "heritage".

Bravo!!

Lindariel · Post by **Lindariel** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:26 pm

Just gorgeous Iolanthe! I must have it!

I see so many things related to Line of Elendil -- the White Tree in flower encompassing all, Minas Anor (Tirith), the undulating waves of the sea, Minas Ithil ("twin sister" of Minas Anor), Amon Sul, etc. I agree with Riv that this says a lot about the heritage of the Dunedain.

marbretherese · Post by **marbretherese** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:36 pm

Iolanthe, this is gorgeous - your best yet!

I'm reminded of this passage from The Sil, which describes Telperion, one of the two trees of Valinor:

one had leaves of dark green that beneath were as shining silver, and form each of his countless flowers a dew of light was ever falling . . .

but in your picture the tree is also the White Tree of Gondor; Minas Tirith sits top right, and the Moon (and the Ring). I love the drowned lands in the middle of the picture.

There are "stars flowering in the sky" in your picture, which you mention in an earlier post; putting me in mind of Eärendil, who sails the sky with a Silmaril bound to his brow - the Evening Star, the Light of the Trees, a sign of hope. Which brings me to another favourite quote, this time from Gilraen, Aragorn's mother, in the tale of Aragorn & Arwen:

I gave Hope to the Dúnedain, I have kept no hope for myself

So I guess if I wanted to sum up in one word what this picture conveys to me I would say "hope".

It's beautiful