Middle-earth Journeys

Iolanthe wrote:They were both certainly invaluable, which I guess isn't quite the same thing as 'achieving' in the way Tolkien was thinking of when he wrote that comment. But others have to support and serve for others to achieve the necessary goals!

Not to mention they both round up the number of the fellowship to 9 which seems to be the favorite number of the Professor.

I also believe they may not have "achieved" something during the journey but they are the representatives of two of the biggest & historically important groups of peoples of Middle-earths history.

Yes - they absolutely had to be represented as part of the Quest (or anti-Quest as they are trying to destroy something, not find it!). And the Nine members of the Fellowship balance the Nine Ringwraithes, of course!

Nine (as I'm sure you know) is a deeply symbolic and sacred number, being 3 x 3 and therefore representing eternity and completeness. But, interestingly not used that frequently in the Bible where most things seem to come in twelves.

Iolanthe wrote:But, interestingly not used that frequently in the Bible where most things seem to come in twelves.

Which is also a product of 3. lol

Here is a recipe for Coney Stew!


http://www.wired.com/underwire/2011/01/ ... 9&pid=2468


Looks like they had quite a meal at this trilogy viewing!

“Each year we must gather to recount the epic quest of the hobbit Frodo and his merry band of dwarfs, wizards, elves and Viggo’s,”

There's more than one of them? That's the best news I've heard for years .

Hope it's not heresy to say that I don't want Viggo; I want Aragorn!

What fun Merry thanks for sharing.

Happy Birthday to Our Eternal King!

LOTR Appendix B: Year 2931 Aragorn son of Arathorn II born on March 1st.

I posted my birthday wishes in the Gen Tolkien thread. I was thinking of him today too L.

I hope everyone is following The Great Years Calendar at the top! Things are getting interesting in Middle-earth, as they do in March every year.

I remember when I first read LOTR nearly a lifetime ago, being incredibly relieved when the Dunedain show up. They seem so capable that one feels that all will be well!

This is the question that kept my brain cells percolating last night:

Why didn't Celeborn follow Galadriel into the West?

Several reasons -- (1) Galadriel, like Elrond, because of her long stewardship of one of the three great Elven Rings, had wearied of her time in Middle-earth and desperately needed to take ship to Aman to be healed. Celeborn, on the other hand, was not wearied of his time in Ennor; depending upon WHICH incarnation of Celeborn you prefer, he also had never been to Aman and had not yet incurred the "Sea-Longing."

(2) He remained behind to provide leadership for the remaining Galadhrim who had not yet chosen to sail. Also, he stayed to serve as an elder kinsman to his three grandchildren -- Elladan, Elrohir, and Arwen. Arwen had already made her choice to marry Aragorn and become mortal. Clearly, he would want to spend whatever years remained to her before her death with her. In addition, Elladan and Elrohir had not yet made their choice. At some point, once Lothlorien had been abandoned by the Galadhrim, he joined the twins in Imladris.

Finally, Tolkien never specifically says that either Celeborn or the twins ever do sail to Aman. The same goes for Thranduil; we are never told whether he eventually sails to the Undying Lands to join Legolas, his father Oropher, etc. Likewise, we are left to wonder whether Celeborn and the twins remained in Middle-earth and eventually faded, or whether at some point they sailed to rejoin Galadriel, Elrond, and Celebrian in Aman.

It's an interesting question, serinde: I can see why it percolated!

Lindariel's answers are correct, of course! But in a way, they just provoke deeper questions. Celeborn and Galadriel sort of have a mixed marriage, don't they? Coming from different lineages of elves, their experiences of Middle-earth are different in some ways. And those who accuse Tolkien of being a misogynist overlook the fact that it was Galadriel who was more powerful of the couple. Perhaps this would have been true even if she hadn't had the Ring.

It's also possible that Elves experience things like love and marriage somewhat differently than humans do. Tolkien suggests in one place, as I recall, that elves have sex only when they intend to reproduce--the subject of a lot of internet discussion! So maybe, since Galadriel and Celeborn had reproduced as they saw fit, it wasn't a huge big deal for them to be apart. Frankly, I always imagined that Celeborn sort of looked forward to a chance to be in charge, to wear the pants in the family, so to speak!

This is, of course, pure idle speculation.

Thanks for the answers. I wondered if living with someone who was actually born in Valinor (and, so, shone with the light of the West) wouldn't be wearing on the soul (if one had a soul...)

Also, the people of Lothlorien consisted of Sindarin (those who did not complete the journey into the West, including Celeborn) and 'wood-elves' (those who refused the call altogether, and would never sail into the west), and perhaps Celeborn felt his duty was to watch over them once the Elven Rings lost their power.

Of course, these are just my opinions ~~ and my LotR terms are not up to par!

So is Celeborn the reigning elf in M-e after the Rings sail?