Who Said It?

Gil · Post by **Gil** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:54 pm

Riv Res, it IS Faramir (lovely man!!!) but where and to whom???

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:13 pm

I would venture a guess that it sounds like the conversation Faramir had with Frodo in Ithilien.

Gil · Post by **Gil** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:36 am

Yep! your turn Riv Res.

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:17 pm

OK...Level 1...

Who said...

It is not of the Ring, nor of us others that I am thinking of now, but of you...

Gil · Post by **Gil** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:06 pm

This rings no bells for me at all Riv Res!

I guess it's someone talking to Frodo, and the style of the English makes me think the speaker is not a Hobbit. But who? and when? Gandalf, Aragorn, Faramir, Boromir, elrond, Arwen, Galadrial?.

mmm, Boromir at Parth Galen?

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:43 pm

No...not Boromir, and he is not talking to a Hobbit.

But I like your reasoning.

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:51 pm

I think that this is Aragorn talking to Gandalf. It's when they've made the decision to go into Moria and it shows that Aragorn has a little ability for prescience, maybe.

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:24 pm

Can't fool Merry.

Yup! You're up!

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:26 pm

Oh, I'm often easily fooled! It's just that I've always found that a curious remark. Do you think that Aragorn and Gandalf knew that there was a Balrog in Moria? If they did, they would both have known that Gandalf was the only one who could take him on. So why didn't they add that little piece of knowledge into the discussion? Knowing that makes the Gap of Rohan seem like the less dangerous route, maybe. If they didn't know about the Balrog, Aragorn seems to have a bit of the seer in him, but I don't think he displays this ability anywhere else, does he? Curious.

Here's my quote:

"A very good tale! . . . The best I have heard for a long while. If all beggars could tell such a good one, they might find me kinder."

Level 1

Gil · Post by **Gil** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:06 pm

Merry, I'm sure that neither Gandalf nor Aragorn knew about the Balrog even though they'd both been in Moria before. If they had nothing would have persuaded them to bring the Ring, with it's propensity to attract evil, near it. As a Maia Gandalf would know far too much about such beings to permit that.

But Aragorn does show foresight, remember his conversation with Elrond in the appendices?

then suddenly the foresight of his kindred came to him and he said: "But lo! Master Elrond, the years of your abiding run short at last, and the choice must soon be laid on your children, to part either with you or with Middle-earth."

And there's his prediction to Eomer that they would meet again though all the hosts of Mordor stood between.

Your quote does sound familiar, I am thinking...

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:07 pm

Merry, as I have read that part and the subsequent evolution of the story over the years. I think that both Aragorn and Gandalf knew exactly what they were up against, that there was a Balrog and that Gandalf would be sorely tested. I believe I have read that both Gandalf and Aragorn had been in Moria before. I think that Aragorn was asking in principle, "Do you really want to go through with this?"

Sacrilegious as it may seem, I have always thought that this was (the Catholic) Tolkien analogy of the Garden of Gethsemane. Gandalf knows that only the more powerful Gandalf the White will be able to sustain the rest of the quest and it is as if he has to offer himself up for the good of all as Christ did after wrestling with his doubts in the Garden. He would rather take the Pass at Caradhras or even the Gap of Rohan, but the fates push him to his trial in Moria.

Aragorn appears to sense it coming and feels the need to state his warning one last time.

LOL...all of this...IMHO

ETA: Gil, I think we have divergent views and I love it!

Each of us interprets Tolkien in our own way.

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:41 pm

Hee hee! I love a good argument! I think we have to go back to the texts and look around. Gil, good examples of Aragorn's prophetic abilities. And RR, I don't think it is sacrilegious at all.

Riv Res · Post by **Riv Res** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:13 pm

Merry wrote:"A very good tale! . . . The best I have heard for a long while. If all beggars could tell such a good one, they might find me kinder."

I believe that would be Beorn to Gandalf, Bilbo and the Dwarves on his front porch.

Merry · Post by **Merry** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:56 am

Yes, indeed, RR! You're up--

Gil · Post by **Gil** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:53 pm

RR, the many layered natured of the books is what makes them such a good read for me. I can see how your interpretation fits, but I really don't agree! I do think it's great that we can agree to differ though!