Page 5 of 15
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:55 pm
by Merry
Yes. I've always thought that if it had just been the Sil and the Hobbit, we would never have heard of Tolkien.
Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:28 pm
by Riv Res
They fly to the Carrock and reach Beorn’s in midafternoon.
The Carrock: the fang. In its description it is a rather dramatic appearing place where the Eagles have deposited Gandalf, Dwarves and Hobbit. But from its heights, the Company travels most of the day to reach Beorn’s Hall.
The name Beorn has been thoroughly researched by Tolkien scholars and is Old English for bear. Indeed, it also has its roots in the Norse, Bjorn, which connects to berserkers (something that will take on relevance later in the tale). We are also told that Beorn was a skin-changer who lived by day as a big and burly man, and by night he prowled as a bear. Tolkien paints him as gruff, abrupt, and very mysterious.
“The Hobbit mentions that dragons chased most men away from the northern lands, and it implies that the great bears of the northern mountains vanished when the giants appeared some time before the story unfolds. Beorn is associated with both bears and the northern men. If the skin-changers did not originate with Beorn then they must have lived in the mountains, and Gandalf does reveal he once overheard Beorn express the hope he would one day return to the mountains.” *
The Company knows they are approaching Beorn’s Hall when they encounter the large flower patches and his bee-pastures. Seems a likely setting for man and bear, does it not?
* - from Beorning Questions by Michael Marinez
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:16 am
by librislove
Good entry! I have always loved this part of The Hobbit, and look forward to what del Toro will do with Beorn and his animals. It is so natural to Tolkien that he would plumb the depths of ancient legend regarding the folklore of bears and men, and combinations thereof; bears are such mythical animals the world over.
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:43 am
by Merry
July 22 They ride out from Beorn's in early afternoon.
Our hero, Bilbo, has certainly undergone a forced education since the time he began his adventure this spring. Once very comfortable and certain about the world and its ways on the basis of his experience in the Shire, by this time in the story, he must have questioned much of what he thought he knew. From the unexpected invasion and virtual coercion by a wizard and dwarves, to being waylaid by trolls and goblins, to being teased and well hosted by singing elves, to exchanging riddles with the unique Gollum, to being chased up trees by wolves and then rescued by talking eagles, Bilbo’s set of categories of things that exist in the wide world was expanding by the day.
But perhaps one of the strangest and most memorable creatures he meets on his adventures is Beorn. He must have ridden out from Beorn's house this day shaking his head, but marvelling just a little about his rich exerience there. Although Shippey and Anderson provide cultural and linguistic background for this bear-man and his Carrock, within the story, this frightening yet ultimately principled shapeshifter had to have been one of Bilbo’s most surprising eye-openers. Even Gandalf does not seem to understand Beorn well, other than to say that “. . . he is under no enchantment but his own.” Here again, Tolkien does not find it necessary to answer every question about his world. Rather, his story is like real life in that questions persist.
Bilbo’s stay at Beorn’s hall (which Anderson tells us is typical of a Germanic hall such as is found in Beowulf) functions as a safe down-time in the story arc, a device of Tolkien’s which allows him to build an even higher tension later. The descriptions of what they eat and drink, how they are served by talking animals, their sleeping accommodations, and the nightly absence of Beorn (the evidence of whose marauding they find one morning: a goblin’s head on the gatepost and a warg-skin nailed to a tree) add richness and depth to the story. Beorn also provides them with gifts for their journey of transportation, weapons, and food, and stealthy protection to the edge of Mirkwood. This pattern of a visitation serves Tolkien well through The Lord of the Rings, but perhaps it is followed most closely by the hobbits’ visit with Tom Bombadil, who is also under no enchantment but his own.
They leave knowing Beorn is a friend. And that means we shall see him again!
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:29 am
by librislove
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:28 pm
by Iolanthe
That's a very good question. Where indeed! Somewhere off gardening with the lady dwarves and the Mrs. Ents

.
I love the episode with Beorn - very interesing posts, Riv and Merry. He is a mystery and the background that Tolkien drew him from is fascinating
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:58 pm
by Riv Res
and the nightly absence of Beorn (the evidence of whose marauding they find one morning: a goblin’s head on the gatepost and a warg-skin nailed to a tree) add richness and depth to the story
It does indeed Merry! Nicely done!!

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:59 am
by Merry
Thanks! I love this episode, too, but I must confess I never thought of Mrs. Beorn. Maybe the visit with Bilbo and the dwarves made him think he actually liked to have 'company' more than he thought he did, and clearing the mountains of goblins made it safe to do so.
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:06 pm
by Lindariel
I'm right with you there librislove! Gloin's hints to Frodo about the Beornings being trusty folk, although their tolls are high (!), really tickles the imagination but leaves one more than a bit unsatisfied. I have always been under the impression that the Beornings, like the Elves, Dwarves, and Hobbits, are a "diminishing" race that at one time and in a different place were much more extensive. Beorn's mysterious rumblings about eliminating the goblins of the Misty Mountains and taking his place "back" are certainly very interesting.
I'm guessing that, at the time of The Hobbit, Beorn is the chieftain of the remaining remnant of the Beornings and that their settlements are few and far between. Perhaps Beorn takes a wife during the relative peace that ensues after the Battle of Five Armies, or perhaps he already has a wife, but she resides with his relatives in a safer area, rather than at his bee farm near The Carrock, and he visits her from time to time? Perhaps he is a widower, and his son is being fostered in a safer place, while Beorn patrols the area of the settlements closest to the Misty Mountains and the marauding goblins and wolves?
I'd also like to know what the life span of the Beornings might be. We are given no indication about Beorn's age at the time of The Hobbit, but we do know that by the time of FOTR, the Beornings are led by his son Grimbeorn, the assumption being that Beorn has died. Are the Beornings numbered among the Middle or Lesser Men (by Faramir's reckoning), or, since they are magical beings, do they have longer lives, more like the Numenoreans? Beorn appears to recall a time during his life in which his people still occupied their ancestral homes in and around the Misty Mountains, before they were overrun by orcs. Wouldn't that imply that he has lived quite a very long time? VERY interesting!
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:04 pm
by librislove
Lovely musings, Lindariel. I love a universe with enough mysteries left that you get to write your own backstory. . . .
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:19 pm
by Merry
We should be having this great discussion in an open thread where everybody else can read it!
P.S. Thanks for posting and illustrating, RR!
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:32 am
by Riv Res
Merry, that would be a bit hard because of all the interspersing of calendar posts that have fed this conversation.

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:39 pm
by Merry
True. But maybe we could be conscious of trying to have discussion of the calendar in the Hobbit thread in the future. This is too fun to keep hidden.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:51 pm
by Riv Res
I agree.
How would everyone feel about me moving the conversation (that includes the previous calendar entries) out in the open in a new discussion thread? We can still post our new calendar entries here as they are written, but then can be moved once published, to the new thread to enhance the conversation there.
Thoughts?
ps: I would NOT be moving the calendar schedule and image tools to the new thread. That's just for us here privately.
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:06 pm
by Lindariel
Riv, couldn't we just add this conversation to the current Hobbit discussion thread, rather than opening a new one?
Here's my entry for July 25. Comments would be much appreciated.
July 25: Gandalf departs with ponies at the west edge of Mirkwood.
Once again, our intrepid band of adventurers has left a place of safety and recuperation to plunge back into the uncertainty and danger of the wild. For the next several days, they travel swiftly on the wonderful ponies Beorn has loaned them. Tolkien mentions that they are able to relax, talk, and sing during the day, but at dusk, their unease returns, and they set watches and slide into troubling dreams featuring “the howl of hunting wolves and the cries of goblins.” It is on the third such night that Bilbo notices “the shadowy form of a great bear prowling along in the same direction,” but Gandalf tells him to “Take no notice!”
On the afternoon of their fourth day of travel, they reach the forest gate of Mirkwood, and Gandalf reminds them that they must now return the wonderful ponies to their formidable master. When the dwarves begin to grumble about this, he quickly admonishes them, “Mr. Baggins’ eyes are sharper than yours, if you have not seen each night after dark a great bear going along with us . . . . Beorn may be your friend, but he loves his animals as his children. You do not guess what kindness he has shown you . . . nor what would happen to you, if you tried to take them into the forest.”
The party then experiences a second blow when Gandalf informs them that he will be returning his horse personally, as he must leave the expedition of Thorin & Co. to attend to “pressing business away south.” We learn later that this bit of “business” is none other than an assault by the White Council upon the Necromancer and his fortress of Dol Guldur in the south of Mirkwood. We have to wait until LOTR to discover that the Necromancer is none other than Sauron himself.
Gandalf tries to cheer the dwarves up by reminding them that, “I am sending Mr. Baggins with you. I have told you before that he has more about him than you guess.” Indeed, Mr. Baggins has grown quite a bit since he left the comfort of his home in the Shire. He attempted to pick the pocket of a troll, was captured by goblins, and while lost in the depths of the Misty Mountains, he managed to discover a magic ring, survive his encounter with Gollum, and escape to rejoin the party all on his own. With Gandalf’s departure, Bilbo is poised to assume an odd sort of leadership position with Thorin & Co., and they will indeed learn that there is much more to him than they could possibly guess!