NARN I HÎN HÚRIN - The Tale of the Children of Húrin

A discussion of Tolkien's Unfinshed Tales
Merry
Varda
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Post by Merry » Wed May 13, 2009 2:42 pm

I thought so, too. This explains a lot, especially the never-ending debate about whether Boromir is a hero or a villain. It's hard to tell with a 'hero' of this type.
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.

Iolanthe
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Post by Iolanthe » Thu May 14, 2009 1:58 pm

It's a whole different definition of the word from what we're used to.

Thinking about it, because the Rohirrim are based on the ancient Anglo Saxons and what they would have been like if they had gone east instead of West and become Horse Lords, then it follows that their heroes follow the Northern ideal too. So to be consistent Tolkien must have made sure that Eomer and Theoden also fit the profile. Like Theoden, in battle at the end. In fact..... Eowyn's reckless state of mind and seemingly hopeless stand against the Witchking, when she taunts him, also fits it perfectly!
Now let the song begin! Let us sing together
Of sun, stars, moon and mist, rain and cloudy weather...

Merry
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Post by Merry » Thu May 14, 2009 2:16 pm

I had also thought of the 'death' chant as being related to this. What might have become of Eowyn and Eomer if Theoden had been taken away and tortured, rather than rescued and given a meaningful role to play by the True King? Or even earlier, what might have become of them if their uncle had not taken them in after their parents were killed?

What would have happened to Turin if there had been a wizard around?
Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West,
for your King shall come again,
and he shall dwell among you
all the days of your life.

Lindariel
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Post by Lindariel » Sat May 16, 2009 7:00 pm

I do think The Professor was depicting two very different philosophies/traditions of the "Hero" -- Turin, Boromir, Theoden, and Eomer illustrate the ancient Norse hero (fatalistic, focused on honor, death, glory, and the afterlife), and Aragorn and Faramir the more modern Romantic hero (hopeful, focused on issues larger than themselves).

PJ & Co. actually did a really good job of illustrating those differences in "shorthand" in that wonderful scene between Aragorn and Theoden in Helm's Deep:

Aragorn: Ride out with me. Ride out and meet them.

Theoden: For death and glory.

Aragron: For Rohan. For your people.

These aren't The Professor's words, but they do capture the spirit intended, and outline the differences between these two characters in just three short phrases.

During the Third Age of Middle-earth, the "Hero" is evolving, but we are still in a phase where both iterations exist side by side.
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Post by Philipa » Sat May 16, 2009 8:00 pm

Lindariel thanks for putting it so plainly. That was very insightful.
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